[00:00:00:07 - 00:01:30:08] Collin Capurso This is an interview with Delia or Dee Robinson conducted by Konga Perso on August 1, 2025. Delia's deep roots in Orleans County and a lifelong passion for history have made her a central figure in preserving and promoting the rich heritage of the region. From her early years shaped by influential people and experiences, she has developed a dedication to historical preservation and archival work that has guided her career. A point of the deputy town historian in 1982 and later serving as the town historian after J. Howard Pratt's passing, Dee has embraced her role with a commitment to both official record keeping and honoring community memory. Her leadership extended statewide through her presidency of the New York State Municipal Historians for she championed local history initiatives. Dee is also an accomplished author with works like Historical Gains and Historical Amnesia, reflecting her passion for uncovering and sharing stories that shape the local identity. Her educational programs, ranging from cobblestone masonry workshops to explorations of women's history, have brought a lie for audiences across Orleans County, earning her prestigious recognition such as the New York State Preservation League Architectural Heritage Year Award. In this interview, Dee reflects on the challenges and rewards of preserving local history, her mentorship of local and future historians, and her hopes for the ongoing stewardship Orleans County's past. Her story is a testament to the power of community engagement, scholarship, and dedication to heritage. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dee. [00:01:30:08 - 00:01:31:11] Dee Robinson Thank you for having me. [00:01:31:11 - 00:01:31:17] Collin Capurso Of course. [00:01:32:18 - 00:01:43:17] Collin Capurso So looking at your personal background and perhaps some inspirations throughout your life, can you share some memories from your life here in Orleans County and how your environment perhaps influenced your interest in history? [00:01:44:17 - 00:01:47:09] Dee Robinson Well, to begin with, [00:01:48:15 - 00:01:56:08] Dee Robinson three of my grandparents came over here to the United States from Europe, two from Germany and one from Poland. [00:01:57:10 - 00:02:03:13] Dee Robinson My grandfather from Poland stole away on a ship and they didn't find him until they got halfway across the Atlantic. [00:02:03:13 - 00:02:04:21] Collin Capurso What are you going to do then? [00:02:04:21 - 00:02:10:09] Dee Robinson Then he first worked in Newfaine and then he went to Pennsylvania and that's where he met my grandmother. [00:02:11:13 - 00:02:40:18] Dee Robinson So there was always this kind of interest in, well, how did he come? Why did he come? My other grandparents came here from Germany. My grandmother, when she was four, I had the jacket she wore on the ship when she came over here. And then when I was in high school, after my senior year, the Girl Scouts went to Mexico and I went to Mexico over Christmas, which my one grandmother couldn't hardly stand. [00:02:42:15 - 00:02:58:10] Dee Robinson But we were in Mexico City for Christmas and then we came back. I went four years to college and the year I graduated from college, I went to Europe and spent two months in Salzburg, Austria going to Salzburg University. [00:03:00:02 - 00:03:27:19] Dee Robinson Through that went to 11 different countries on study and then tour, which is the way it was set up. So that summer I visited 11 countries, went to school in Salzburg, Austria. So there was all this background of being someplace else, being curious about what I was seeing, asking questions, and then I started working in Wayne County as a librarian. [00:03:29:06 - 00:03:47:23] Dee Robinson And I had gotten home from a trip on Saturday, had Sunday to put stuff in my apartment, and Monday I started working as a librarian in a high school. So my life has always been kind of going in directions and I just was kind of keeping up with it. [00:03:48:23 - 00:04:03:07] Dee Robinson But I worked out there for about five years, met my husband. We decided to get a bigger house and moved out here. I was not familiar with cobblestone. I had never seen cobblestone before because I grew up in Pennsylvania. [00:04:04:14 - 00:04:25:06] Dee Robinson And I had seen one or two cobblestones in Wayne County, but, you know, it was somebody who drove past on the way to work. But when I came out here, we bought a cobblestone house here in Childs. And so once we started living here, I found out the Cobblestone Society was within walking distance to my house. [00:04:25:06 - 00:04:26:19] Collin Capurso So [00:04:26:19 - 00:04:33:15] Dee Robinson I walked down there to ask questions. And I guess I asked so many questions, they finally asked me to join. [00:04:35:22 - 00:05:12:19] Dee Robinson But I did find out about cobblestone and knew Bob Frash from Rochester, Bill Shelgren from the Buffalo area. They were on the board when I was out here, first got here. So I had lots of people to ask questions of and find out in Bill Latin about the local people who lived in my house and got addicted and joined the Cobblestone Society. And in that process helped to set up the resource center where there's information on cobblestones built in New York State throughout the United States. [00:05:14:02 - 00:05:18:21] Collin Capurso I've been able to do a little bit of research about the one directly across the street from me because of that work [00:05:18:21 - 00:05:41:20] Dee Robinson that was done in the past. Well, it was one of those things where Bob Frash had things in Rochester, Bill Shelgren had things in Buffalo. And here we had the Cobblestone Society. So I said, "Why don't we have a library here and put the whole collection where somebody can come and do research on anything that's in New York State or Wisconsin or wherever else they might be." [00:05:41:20 - 00:05:54:20] Collin Capurso And we get tons of people that come in and say, "You saw this one, you live right near this one cobblestone building and we wonder if you know anything about it. Do you consult the archives? What did you know? Nine times out of ten it's on there, most of the time. [00:05:54:20 - 00:06:21:17] Dee Robinson That was the contribution of the people and getting it all in one place rather than saying, "Well, there's this man in Buffalo. Well, okay, there's this man in Rochester and he's connected with the University of--you'll have to call them. We got it all in one place." That's amazing. So that was--it just kind of snowballed like that after I started asking questions. I guess I was bugging people to the point where they thought, "I've got to do something to keep her quiet." [00:06:21:17 - 00:06:27:20] Collin Capurso And would you say that's kind of what sparked your interest in history or do you think it came prior to that, especially with your family? [00:06:27:20 - 00:06:32:04] Dee Robinson I think it came--I think it was always kind of there and it just kind of blossomed. [00:06:33:19 - 00:06:38:07] Dee Robinson The interest was there, the curiosity was there, [00:06:39:18 - 00:06:42:16] Dee Robinson especially my grandfather that came from Poland. [00:06:43:22 - 00:06:49:02] Dee Robinson We didn't know too much about him. We didn't even know if his last name was his real last name. [00:06:49:02 - 00:06:50:03] Collin Capurso Oh, one of those things. [00:06:50:03 - 00:06:59:09] Dee Robinson He changed his last name for an Italian last name as he snuck out of Poland and stole away on a ship. [00:07:00:10 - 00:07:24:01] Dee Robinson And they didn't find him until they were halfway across the Atlantic and then they put him in. And my grandmother said he used to tell about being in the kitchen sitting at the table on the ship and peeling potatoes and set them down on the table. And the ship would shift and the potatoes would roll on the floor. So he was on his hands and knees gathering up potatoes. [00:07:24:01 - 00:07:27:04] Collin Capurso I mean, what are you going to do with a stowaway that you find halfway across the Atlantic? [00:07:27:04 - 00:07:28:06] Dee Robinson What are you going to do with a stowaway? [00:07:30:09 - 00:07:45:02] Dee Robinson So he ended up coming to the United States as a stowaway, which kind of gets me interested in knowing he left his mother. The story is he went over a fence to get out of where he lived, [00:07:46:07 - 00:07:51:16] Dee Robinson decided he had to see his mother one more time, went back over the fence, gave her a hug and kiss and left again. [00:07:52:21 - 00:08:10:22] Dee Robinson And I don't even know if that was his real last name, my grandmother's married name. That's so interesting. So it got my curiosity, I guess, wanting to know things when I first heard about them, digging a little bit more to see if what I was being told was true. There was more behind it. [00:08:10:22 - 00:08:23:09] Collin Capurso And kind of thinking about that, and perhaps it kind of goes hand in hand with what you were mentioning, are there any specific individuals or events in your early life that sparked a passion for historical preservation or historical interest? [00:08:24:13 - 00:08:36:15] Dee Robinson I think mainly family background. And I went to college and went to be a librarian, but as my second interest was history. [00:08:37:17 - 00:08:42:06] Dee Robinson And I tried to enroll in the history and they were full, so I had to take geography. [00:08:43:11 - 00:08:53:14] Dee Robinson But it kind of was sort of kind of, yeah. So I got a double dip there. I did some geography and some history in college. And [00:08:53:14 - 00:09:02:12] Collin Capurso can you think of any educational experiences or perhaps a mentor that guided you in a career towards history and other archival works in that regard? [00:09:04:05 - 00:09:19:06] Dee Robinson I don't know if it was one particular person, but I think a series of people. In things that I did, there would be a person who said, "Hey, Dee, did you ever try looking into this?" And so a lot of people making suggestions. [00:09:21:18 - 00:09:42:01] Dee Robinson It's like when I pulled together a book on the history of Gaines just after we moved here. I hadn't been here very long. And it was about the history of Gaines and somebody said to me, "Did you know that there were famous people who lived in childs?" And I said, "No, who?" [00:09:42:01 - 00:09:43:05] Collin Capurso Who are you talking about? [00:09:43:05 - 00:09:45:10] Dee Robinson I mean, this little Four Corners. [00:09:46:15 - 00:10:02:23] Dee Robinson Farron Frazier, who was an author and wrote the scripts for radio programs, was here and his wife was a pianist for the Rochester Philharmonic. [00:10:04:15 - 00:10:20:18] Dee Robinson And huda thunk it, I think. No, seriously. And yet that got me interested, so I started digging in their background. And found an interview with them and got some quotes from interviews with them and put them in that Gaines book. [00:10:20:18 - 00:10:34:13] Collin Capurso Yeah, I mean, there's tons of little local people that are from this area. I mean, you have Bedell, the woman who convinced Lincoln to grow a beard. Probably the most famous is George Pullman, of course, but all these little bits and pieces. [00:10:34:13 - 00:10:49:18] Dee Robinson But there are other people that influenced American history, not just Albion or Orleans County or Western New York. That's fascinating. And then once you find that, then I get addicted and I've got to find more and find more. [00:10:49:18 - 00:11:03:06] Collin Capurso I think what I find most interesting about history, and especially being a historian, is that it's kind of like a puzzle that you're putting together. You might be missing this one piece, but sometimes it's the integral piece. Other times, you don't need the piece. [00:11:03:06 - 00:11:08:11] Dee Robinson Or when you find it, it doesn't really do. You've got to find another piece that went with it. [00:11:08:11 - 00:11:10:09] Collin Capurso That's an incredible thing to look at. [00:11:10:09 - 00:11:10:14] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:11:10:14 - 00:11:24:10] Collin Capurso And throughout your life, you've had various responsibilities. And in 1982, you were appointed as the Deputy Town Historian under J. Howard Pratt, one of the founders of the museum. How did this opportunity come about? And what were some of your responsibilities? [00:11:25:13 - 00:11:32:02] Dee Robinson I think probably it came about because I wanted to know more about our Cobblestone house. [00:11:34:20 - 00:11:51:10] Dee Robinson And I would find out about Howard Pratt was a historian. So I would call him and tell him who I was, and I've got some questions about this house I'm living in. Would you be able to help me? And so I would go out there, and Howard and I ended up with a friendship. [00:11:53:12 - 00:12:06:04] Dee Robinson So I would talk to him and Bill Latin and Bill's father, Carrie Latin, that were involved in Cobblestone. So I was always constantly saying, "Hey, did you know that? And could you help me find..." [00:12:07:15 - 00:12:08:07] Dee Robinson Knowing [00:12:08:07 - 00:12:10:06] Collin Capurso Bill, he knows everything about everything. [00:12:10:06 - 00:12:41:07] Dee Robinson Yes, he does. Yes, he does. And so I kind of ended up with a friendship with those three men that were all geared into the history of this area. And Howard Pratt, when I was working with Howard, he was historian for the Town of Gaines. No other town in Orleans County had a deputy historian until Howard went to the Town of Gaines and said, "I think Dee ought to be appointed deputy historian." [00:12:41:07 - 00:12:43:12] Collin Capurso Were you the first deputy historian in Orleans County? [00:12:43:12 - 00:12:44:17] Dee Robinson In Orleans County, yeah. [00:12:44:17 - 00:12:45:04] Collin Capurso That's amazing. [00:12:47:10 - 00:13:02:10] Dee Robinson But Howard was in his late 80s, early 90s, and so I would help him find things or keep a record of things. And we got to be friends. It wasn't so much colleagues as it was friends. [00:13:02:10 - 00:13:04:02] Collin Capurso Kind of guided you into that. [00:13:04:02 - 00:13:13:08] Dee Robinson Yeah, and he kind of said, "Well, you know, I think you ought to do this. I don't have the time or I don't have the writing ability to do that. I think you ought to do this." [00:13:13:08 - 00:13:16:07] Collin Capurso And what were some of the things that you did as deputy historian? [00:13:16:07 - 00:13:27:06] Dee Robinson I kind of went first with Howard's pointing, saying, "You know, I think we ought to do some research on this, or could you help me find this?" [00:13:29:01 - 00:13:34:17] Dee Robinson And at the time I was involved with Howard, I also was getting involved with the Cobblestone Society. [00:13:35:21 - 00:13:53:23] Dee Robinson So research got going on, research got going on research. And Cobblestone being in the town of Gaines and the town of Gaines, historian needed to own, but it all kind of overlapped. And I ended up with more research than I probably needed to do. As [00:13:53:23 - 00:13:55:14] Collin Capurso if college wasn't enough, right? [00:13:55:14 - 00:14:09:08] Dee Robinson Yes, right. Well, I kind of got the implementation to get going on something and think, "Where else could I look for the information? Who else could I ask?" That's what a lot of history is. [00:14:09:08 - 00:14:09:17] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:14:09:17 - 00:14:17:16] Dee Robinson Because you think you've heard all the stories until you talk to that man down the road at that farm, whose grandfather settled here. [00:14:18:16 - 00:14:22:23] Dee Robinson So you have to piece things together as you hear a story. [00:14:22:23 - 00:14:59:19] Collin Capurso Yeah, Bill and I are still trying to wrap our heads around this one thing. I acquired a lot of old artifacts from my grandfather that passed away last summer. And one of these things was a transcription of an old piece of history, primarily in Waterport. But there is this one story of a man named David Bullard who got basically trapped in the canal when it flooded. Oh. And he was writing, according to this document that we were reading, on the top of a pig pen, all the way down the canal for about two miles. But the way Bill had always heard it was that it was on top of a chicken coop. So we don't know which is real. [00:14:59:19 - 00:15:00:15] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:15:00:15 - 00:15:04:17] Collin Capurso And that's just, it's one of those things. I mean, it's subject to conjecture in some ways. [00:15:04:17 - 00:15:04:21] Dee Robinson It is. [00:15:04:21 - 00:15:06:05] Collin Capurso But that's the beauty of it. [00:15:06:05 - 00:15:10:00] Dee Robinson Some of it has to do with what the person said. [00:15:10:00 - 00:15:10:12] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:15:10:12 - 00:15:16:20] Dee Robinson But it may be somebody who saw him. Saw him. Going down the canal and said he was on top of a chicken coop. [00:15:16:20 - 00:15:18:03] Collin Capurso And maybe that's right. [00:15:18:03 - 00:15:19:23] Dee Robinson And maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was a pig pen. [00:15:19:23 - 00:15:20:16] Collin Capurso Who knows? [00:15:20:16 - 00:15:24:02] Dee Robinson But it was something wooden and he was on top of it and he was going down the canal. [00:15:24:02 - 00:15:28:07] Collin Capurso He was going down the canal? That's a sight that I wish I could see. [00:15:28:07 - 00:15:28:14] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:15:31:06 - 00:15:39:11] Collin Capurso After Mr. Pratt passed away in 1988, you became the town historian. And how did you approach this new role? What were the primary objectives? [00:15:39:11 - 00:15:49:14] Dee Robinson I was kind of overwhelmed, to be honest with you, because Howard lived here. Yeah. He taught here. He spent his whole life here. He grew all of it. And I'm the newbie on the block. [00:15:50:20 - 00:15:56:08] Dee Robinson The poor. And I felt I had a lot of catching up to do. Yeah. To learning the basics. [00:15:57:11 - 00:16:06:17] Dee Robinson So I really started with going through Pioneer History of Orleans County and Landmarks of Orleans County and trying to learn the history of games. [00:16:06:17 - 00:16:08:04] Collin Capurso Kind of like a mental map, in a way. [00:16:08:04 - 00:16:15:04] Dee Robinson Yeah. Yeah. So I had to try and fill his shoes. And that was a little hard to do, being a new person. [00:16:15:04 - 00:16:18:16] Collin Capurso I can imagine. I mean, Pratt left behind an incredible legacy, too. [00:16:18:16 - 00:16:22:03] Dee Robinson Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it just-- with his-- [00:16:23:05 - 00:16:24:14] Dee Robinson somebody living there, [00:16:25:19 - 00:16:37:22] Dee Robinson and his family lived there. Yeah. This is a man in his early 90s, and his family lived here. So he goes back like three more generations behind him. [00:16:39:02 - 00:16:42:03] Dee Robinson It's kind of hard to play catch up when you're a kid from Pennsylvania. [00:16:42:03 - 00:16:45:21] Collin Capurso Yeah. And I should have asked, when did you move here to Orleans County? [00:16:47:05 - 00:16:52:03] Dee Robinson Well, just-- it was about 1976 or so. Gotcha. [00:16:52:03 - 00:16:52:21] Collin Capurso Mid-70s. [00:16:52:21 - 00:16:57:01] Dee Robinson Yeah. About when the celebration for the Bicentennial. It wasn't that old. Yeah. [00:16:57:01 - 00:16:57:21] Collin Capurso Gotcha. [00:16:57:21 - 00:17:01:05] Dee Robinson So yeah, that's the year that we moved out here. [00:17:01:05 - 00:17:09:01] Collin Capurso And what did a day's work kind of look like as historian, especially here in Gaines? I mean, you mentioned being the newbie and kind of figuring it out piece by piece. [00:17:09:01 - 00:17:13:00] Dee Robinson Yeah. Well, it was-- it's-- being the historian is really-- [00:17:14:02 - 00:17:15:03] Dee Robinson you're your own guide. [00:17:15:03 - 00:17:15:17] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:17:15:17 - 00:17:40:22] Dee Robinson It is a matter of hearing a story and thinking, oh, I wonder what else went on with that. I wonder where he came from. I wonder what he would-- and so it's getting that little piece of history that you don't quite understand and doing the research and trying to piece the thing together. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like our house built of cobblestone. [00:17:42:03 - 00:17:58:23] Dee Robinson But it was updated at the turn of the century. And a top floor was added on. Yeah. The cobblestone is still down here. The cobblestone is the wing that goes out back. But the top of it, it was modernized. [00:17:58:23 - 00:17:59:14] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:17:59:14 - 00:18:26:19] Dee Robinson And just after the turn of the century. And we have a bay window in our-- and what I've been told, which is-- this, again, is gathering history. But in talking to family members, that bay window was put in because Mr. Balcom, who lived there, was the first person to develop polio in this area. Wow. And he was bedridden. [00:18:27:18 - 00:18:37:01] Dee Robinson But he knew two-thirds of the town. So they put in a bay window so they could open up the windows and he could talk to people walking up and down the ridge road. [00:18:37:01 - 00:18:38:05] Collin Capurso Give him a gift or something. [00:18:38:05 - 00:18:47:10] Dee Robinson Yeah. Yeah. And they say, hi, and how are you doing? And did you hear so-and-so did this? They could stop and talk to him while he was in bed in the bay window. So fascinating. [00:18:48:12 - 00:18:50:18] Dee Robinson So, you know, it's just amazing. [00:18:50:18 - 00:18:53:03] Collin Capurso Those little tiny pieces of local history. [00:18:53:03 - 00:18:54:10] Dee Robinson Yeah. But they're fun. [00:18:54:10 - 00:19:02:08] Collin Capurso Perhaps in the grand scheme of things. They don't matter as much. Right. But it helps contribute to the tapestry and the framework of our town. [00:19:02:08 - 00:19:05:04] Dee Robinson Right. It helps you to understand what was going on. [00:19:05:04 - 00:19:09:01] Collin Capurso Yeah. And I think especially that kind of ground-up history is extremely important. [00:19:09:01 - 00:19:16:01] Dee Robinson Yeah, I think so too because now, oh, polio, that's an old thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've got a lot worse things now. [00:19:17:02 - 00:19:20:05] Dee Robinson But not really at that time. It was the worst thing. [00:19:20:05 - 00:19:20:19] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:19:20:19 - 00:19:46:07] Dee Robinson It was people were depilitated. They were in bed and could not move. He was the first case around here. So crazy. So, you know, the bay window and lifting the windows and he could talk to people who were still walking up and down the ridge because there weren't that many vehicles. Yeah. If you were rich and well-to-do, you had a vehicle, but not everybody had one. And so people were still walking up and down the ridge. [00:19:46:07 - 00:19:49:05] Collin Capurso Sure. Certain kids probably remember walking to school or something. [00:19:49:05 - 00:19:49:19] Dee Robinson Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:19:49:19 - 00:19:50:05] Collin Capurso Yeah. [00:19:51:14 - 00:19:55:04] Dee Robinson Right. Yeah. So it gives you a whole different view of history. [00:19:55:04 - 00:20:05:11] Collin Capurso It's incredible. And then you were also a past president of the New York State Municipal Historians. What initiatives did you undertake to promote local history across the state? [00:20:05:11 - 00:20:34:20] Dee Robinson We really, what we did was when we had meetings was to have the different people give a report of what they were doing so that you could get an idea of who was just kind of going into the office and, you know, filling out the chart and the person who came up with a good idea. And we'd have meetings and talk about, you know, what project are you doing now? What do you think? Why is it important and what you're doing? [00:20:35:23 - 00:20:43:00] Dee Robinson What kind of sources are you using? Are you talking to people or are you going down in the deeds or where are you finding your information? [00:20:44:04 - 00:20:58:21] Dee Robinson So we tried to get some municipal historians just had the office. Gotcha. You know, and other ones were real workers and trying to fill in old pieces of history that nobody knew about. Yeah. [00:20:59:23 - 00:21:04:22] Dee Robinson So it was kind of like encouraging people to do a better job at their historians. [00:21:04:22 - 00:21:09:01] Collin Capurso Kind of like a scholarly circle in a way or intellectual hub. [00:21:09:01 - 00:21:23:23] Dee Robinson Right. And we would ask questions and people would talk about what they were doing, what their latest project was. Somebody else would say, hey, I could do that at my house. You know, our community had the same sort of thing of the railroad coming through or whatever. Balancing ideas. [00:21:23:23 - 00:21:26:10] Collin Capurso Yeah. That's a beautiful thing. [00:21:26:10 - 00:21:27:15] Dee Robinson Yeah, it is. It is. [00:21:27:15 - 00:21:40:23] Collin Capurso Kind of looking back at all of your time as historian, deputy and president of this, do you have any memorable discussions or findings or anything among this? Or maybe someone had a dramatic outburst or something. [00:21:42:15 - 00:21:52:07] Dee Robinson No, I can remember having a lot of meetings and people from Long Island and we had people from all over the state. Wow. [00:21:53:21 - 00:22:15:17] Dee Robinson And we were at a luncheon and we had a roundtable and there were about eight of us at this roundtable and we got to laughing, telling jokes and laughing about some sort of research that we did that we ended up with a brick wall or whatever. And we got to laughing and the server, head of the servers came out and said, would you people please keep it down? [00:22:17:03 - 00:22:34:02] Dee Robinson And I thought, here's a bunch of historians talking history and we get told be quiet because we're too loud. Oh, come on. No, but it's been fun. It's been interesting and it's not all sober and very serious kind of things. There are fun things that happen too. [00:22:34:02 - 00:22:36:15] Collin Capurso Able to have the perhaps odd story. [00:22:36:15 - 00:22:37:06] Dee Robinson Yes. [00:22:37:06 - 00:22:40:03] Collin Capurso A humorous one. As I mentioned with Bullard floating down the canal. [00:22:40:03 - 00:22:40:08] Dee Robinson Yes. [00:22:40:08 - 00:22:45:03] Collin Capurso It was probably a big deal, but looking back at it 200 years in the future. You're going in. That's pretty funny. [00:22:45:03 - 00:22:45:18] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:22:47:20 - 00:23:05:16] Dee Robinson But it's interesting because and also when you get that sort of camaraderie, people end up telling stories. Yeah. That are very interesting because they're more relaxed and they know you're as interested in their local history as they are because you do the same sort of job. [00:23:05:16 - 00:23:10:10] Collin Capurso I love that kind of environment. Yeah. Make me miss being in school right now. Yeah. [00:23:11:19 - 00:23:20:20] Collin Capurso How did you often times balance historical record keeping, your works as historian with community memory and other oral traditions? [00:23:22:19 - 00:23:24:16] Dee Robinson Well, working with Howard Pratt, [00:23:26:07 - 00:23:34:14] Dee Robinson I would take cues from him too because he knew certain people in town that I wouldn't have known. He lived here all his life. I was the newbie. [00:23:35:17 - 00:23:43:13] Dee Robinson If I had something I was trying to research, I would go to Howard and say, "Do you know who would know about the canal?" [00:23:44:19 - 00:23:58:15] Dee Robinson Anybody whose family lived on the canal or can I talk to somebody that would because I didn't know canal. I was from Pennsylvania. I didn't know anything about the Erie Canal. Brand new. I've heard the song. 15 months. Just as far as it went. [00:23:59:16 - 00:24:18:11] Dee Robinson I had basic 101 New York State learning to do and Howard Pratt had a lot of that information. I learned a lot from him just through talking, not necessarily heavy paperwork of research, but just interviewing him and talking about it. And tradition passing down [00:24:18:11 - 00:24:24:19] Collin Capurso and stuff. Right. What do you think is probably the most valuable thing that you learned from him? If you could pick maybe one or two things. [00:24:24:19 - 00:24:26:06] Dee Robinson Oh, boy. [00:24:29:21 - 00:25:11:03] Dee Robinson Probably keeping a record of what you found. Yeah. I remember documenting who told you or where you found it that was in the deeds in the county clerk's office because I can remember him having things on the dining room table and we're talking about a project and he went, "Oh, wait a minute. I've got something upstairs." So he went upstairs and he had some files up in his bedroom that he brought down and put on the table. But it was a matter of documenting what you found. Not just verbally say, "Oh, yeah. I found this. You're not going to believe it." But he would document it even though he lived through it. And he could tell me firsthand, you know, "Well, my dad did so and so and so." [00:25:11:03 - 00:25:12:01] Collin Capurso It's different when you're written. [00:25:12:01 - 00:25:17:23] Dee Robinson But it's different when you can document and you can prove that it's not just a family tale. [00:25:17:23 - 00:25:18:15] Collin Capurso Exactly. [00:25:18:15 - 00:25:42:03] Dee Robinson That it's something that actually happened. I'm sure. And the documentation or an interview with someone would lead you to that one little piece in the interview. You think, "Oh, they said they bought property on this road. I wonder when they bought it." So then you go down to the deeds and you start looking for that name. Figuring out which house. And figuring out which house and when they bought it and you can go from there. [00:25:42:03 - 00:25:49:10] Collin Capurso That's amazing. I'm sure you can relate as a fellow historian that it's very difficult that people don't really write things down anymore. [00:25:49:10 - 00:25:50:04] Dee Robinson Oh, yes. [00:25:50:04 - 00:25:53:06] Collin Capurso It's a lot of fun to dig through. It's a challenge. [00:25:54:08 - 00:25:55:20] Collin Capurso It's frustrating. Yeah. But it happens. [00:25:55:20 - 00:26:06:10] Dee Robinson And one of my pet peeves too is everybody thinks, "Well, I'll put it on tape, a video tape or a verbal tape." [00:26:07:18 - 00:26:10:17] Dee Robinson But what happens if you don't have a machine to run that? [00:26:10:17 - 00:26:12:14] Collin Capurso Yeah. I mean, technology is never a whole thing. [00:26:12:14 - 00:26:24:14] Dee Robinson I mean, you could have that, but transcribe a written one to back it up. And I can file that written one away and I never use it. But I've got it in case something happens to that verbal or visual record. [00:26:24:14 - 00:26:48:01] Collin Capurso I mean, that's part of the reason why we do a digital recording right here. We can save it on a card. We can upload it. It can be found on numerous websites. So it's backed up in five different locations. And if, say, one of them is lost, we can always find it again. We can generate subtitles for this. We can generate transcriptions off of it. This will recognize our two voices and pick them apart and make its own separate thing. [00:26:48:01 - 00:26:53:14] Dee Robinson Well, and you know from being down at the library in town, you've got the tape, the [00:26:54:14 - 00:26:59:23] Dee Robinson discs, but you've also got the transcription of typed up what was on this. [00:26:59:23 - 00:27:01:22] Collin Capurso So it's had to be hand-typed at the time, too. [00:27:01:22 - 00:27:12:09] Dee Robinson Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, make it more than one source to have because something on just one source, something happens to that one source. All your information is gone. [00:27:12:09 - 00:27:17:17] Collin Capurso You have to think about the audience, too, as well. Some people, maybe they're blind and they can't read it, but they can hear it. [00:27:17:17 - 00:27:18:12] Dee Robinson Right. They can hear it. [00:27:18:12 - 00:27:19:23] Collin Capurso Yeah. Vice versa. Yeah. [00:27:22:23 - 00:27:35:09] Collin Capurso And you've also had numerous contributions to local history. You've authored several books, including "Historical Gains" and "Historical Amnesia." What motivated you to write these kinds of works and what impact do you hope they've had on the community? [00:27:35:09 - 00:27:57:17] Dee Robinson I guess because I found things that other people couldn't tell me about or things that had not been researched, like "Women's History." Which is a scary thing. If you pick up any history book, it's going to be the men pioneers and what they did. And you might find five women in that whole 5,000-page book. [00:27:57:17 - 00:27:59:08] Speaker 3 They were the mother of someone or whatever. [00:27:59:08 - 00:28:01:11] Dee Robinson Yeah, they were the mother and they made great meals. [00:28:02:11 - 00:28:05:01] Collin Capurso All the cult of domesticity, if you have anything. [00:28:05:01 - 00:28:14:11] Dee Robinson But the first three permanent settlers in this county were women because two of the husbands died and one woman came here on her own. [00:28:14:11 - 00:28:16:08] Collin Capurso Yeah. And that just glossed over entirely. [00:28:16:08 - 00:28:19:04] Dee Robinson It's just, okay, they were settlers. Well, hello. [00:28:19:04 - 00:28:20:19] Collin Capurso What did they do? [00:28:20:19 - 00:28:23:06] Dee Robinson They brought people in. They had families. [00:28:24:12 - 00:28:28:14] Dee Robinson And to me, women needed as much credit as the men did. [00:28:28:14 - 00:28:34:07] Collin Capurso I mean, yeah, they had autonomy and stuff. They had agency throughout history. They deserved that voice. [00:28:34:07 - 00:28:43:09] Dee Robinson Well, and Brown's Berry Patch would not be there if Bessua Brown hadn't stayed after her husband died. Exactly. [00:28:44:11 - 00:28:52:04] Dee Robinson And the Browns, all of their heritage comes because of a woman staying in the wilderness in like 1803. [00:28:52:04 - 00:28:53:13] Collin Capurso You mean to tell me it wasn't a man? [00:28:53:13 - 00:29:00:05] Dee Robinson Yeah. Believe it or not, that woman stayed and she actually made something of her life. No, but it's been, [00:29:01:18 - 00:29:11:12] Dee Robinson that's the tradition of history for years and years and years. Who was the pioneer? Well, John, so on, or Bill, so on, so on. Spiff. Yeah. [00:29:12:15 - 00:29:15:18] Dee Robinson But there were women involved too, but their stories weren't told. [00:29:15:18 - 00:29:16:18] Collin Capurso Never. So, a picture of her daughter. [00:29:16:18 - 00:29:28:04] Dee Robinson And that's what got me addicted. The more I was told, "Oh, it was the man," the more I digged into the woman, which was probably prejudice, but I did it anyway. [00:29:28:04 - 00:29:46:21] Collin Capurso That's the way to do it. Because I mean, especially part of the reason why we do these interviews and looking around at all these people, I mean, everybody has a different story. Oh, yeah. Would you be a man or a woman, and what contributions have they made? And you've accomplished so much in your life, and you compare that to other people, but it's something that you've taken upon yourself. [00:29:46:21 - 00:29:57:10] Dee Robinson Yeah. And that's the important part. It's something I got interested in, like I said, with the women, that nobody had told their stories. So, I started digging for the women and ended up coming up with several of them. [00:29:57:10 - 00:30:00:06] Collin Capurso I think that's honestly one of the best things to do with history. [00:30:00:06 - 00:30:01:12] Dee Robinson Yeah, yeah. [00:30:01:12 - 00:30:12:04] Collin Capurso And are there any stories in particular that stood out to you during your research, perhaps writing these books or any other research throughout your time as a historian, for example? [00:30:12:04 - 00:30:15:17] Dee Robinson Oh, gee, I don't know that there's anything in specific. [00:30:18:10 - 00:30:28:08] Dee Robinson I guess something like Farron Fraser, who wrote for radio, wrote the script for Little Orrif and Annie, [00:30:29:10 - 00:30:44:12] Dee Robinson and about three or four other radio programs, lived here in Childs. In fact, on this side of the road, about three houses down the Brick House across from the village in-- [00:30:44:12 - 00:30:46:06] Collin Capurso John Proctor's former residence? [00:30:46:06 - 00:31:07:18] Dee Robinson No, the smaller house that's kind of hidden in the brush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Farron Fraser and his wife lived there, and he wrote for radio, wrote programs for radio, and the radio, like CBS, that tried to get ahold of him, would call the store because he didn't have a phone. [00:31:07:18 - 00:31:08:23] Collin Capurso Trying to get a reaction. [00:31:08:23 - 00:31:29:01] Dee Robinson And so they would send some over to get him, and he'd have to go over to the store to take the-- Pick up the phone. From New York City that he had a contract to write Little Orrif and Annie or whatever it was he was doing. That's a great question. And meanwhile while he was doing that, his wife was playing piano for the Rochester Philharmonic. [00:31:30:02 - 00:31:32:13] Dee Robinson And to think this little four corners, [00:31:33:23 - 00:31:48:07] Dee Robinson those people lived here and functioned here, and well, Horace Greeley owned the board house, which is part of the museum, because he was helping his aunt and uncle live there. [00:31:49:07 - 00:31:55:21] Collin Capurso And so they were considered risks for acquiring a mortgage. Maybe Greeley should have listened to his gut. Yeah. And [00:31:55:21 - 00:32:09:22] Dee Robinson I love the idea that he came from Pennsylvania, but in telling that story they said he walked along a dusty ridge road. So he walked to get here to sign for the house. [00:32:11:06 - 00:32:15:07] Dee Robinson And Horace Greeley, we have this image of Horace as this important-- [00:32:15:07 - 00:32:16:13] Collin Capurso A published newspaper editor. [00:32:16:13 - 00:32:17:02] Dee Robinson Oh, yes. [00:32:17:02 - 00:32:19:04] Collin Capurso A bunch of abolitionists, presidential candidates. [00:32:19:04 - 00:32:21:14] Dee Robinson Oh, yes. And he was walking the ridge road. [00:32:21:14 - 00:32:23:10] Collin Capurso But simple man doing a simple thing. [00:32:23:10 - 00:32:36:13] Dee Robinson Yeah. Yeah. I think those kind of stories of somebody important in national history actually affected something here or was here and affected American history. [00:32:36:13 - 00:32:45:21] Collin Capurso Same with Pullman, for example. Pullman strike out in Chicago, these small thing that erupted into this massive thing and it's known throughout history by so many. [00:32:45:21 - 00:32:55:17] Dee Robinson Yeah. I love it. Yeah. It's amazing when you tell somebody, somebody like that was in your small little town in Orleans County. [00:32:55:17 - 00:33:07:09] Collin Capurso When you're walking through a house and you're thinking to yourself, the owner that had built this, what they did here and stuff, or sometimes looking at the stars and thinking that humanity's looked at them for thousands and thousands of years, the exact same sky. [00:33:07:09 - 00:33:08:00] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:33:08:00 - 00:33:10:11] Collin Capurso They saw the same thing. Kind of shows you how small you are in some ways. [00:33:10:11 - 00:33:10:17] Speaker 3 Yes, it does. [00:33:10:17 - 00:33:13:12] Collin Capurso But it also opens room for so much more. [00:33:13:12 - 00:33:14:10] Dee Robinson Yeah. I love it. [00:33:14:10 - 00:33:26:19] Collin Capurso Yeah. You've also been at the Hogue Library for a period of time. During your tenure there, you've uncovered many specific findings. What can you tell me about some of them? I remember you showing me a photograph of someone at some point as well. [00:33:26:19 - 00:33:36:20] Dee Robinson Yeah. Well, we have a photograph of Kelvin Coolidge that was given to us by a man from Albion who worked for Kelvin Coolidge. Yeah, through the president. [00:33:38:04 - 00:33:53:12] Dee Robinson He ran a clothing store across from the White House, and he helped to provide Kelvin Coolidge with his jackets and his— wardrobe. Yes, all kinds of things in his wardrobe. So that sort of thing is very interesting. [00:33:55:10 - 00:34:12:10] Dee Robinson I don't know. There's been a lot of—well, just lately. We have been given the transcript from Melissa Erlen in Clarendon of the Wilson hanging, the one and only hanging in Orleans County. [00:34:13:15 - 00:34:21:10] Dee Robinson Well, in doing just spot research on the internet thinking, "I wonder if anybody else has put anything up lately since I researched this before." [00:34:22:17 - 00:34:25:11] Dee Robinson I found information on his children. [00:34:26:14 - 00:34:31:00] Dee Robinson He had killed his wife. He was hung in Albion. [00:34:32:03 - 00:34:35:04] Dee Robinson I didn't know he had kids. He had a boy and a girl. [00:34:35:04 - 00:34:39:05] Collin Capurso I knew that obviously there was a hanging downtown, but I didn't know he had children. [00:34:39:05 - 00:35:13:23] Dee Robinson I didn't know he did until this year, and I've lived here how long, and I didn't know he had children, but nobody ever talked about it. He killed his wife. He got hung, da-da-da. But he had a son and a daughter, and I found information about his son that his son taught penmanship in New York City, that he had a talent for penmanship. He's noted his last name was Wilson, but he changed it to Smith because he was seven when his father was hung. [00:35:15:02 - 00:35:18:12] Dee Robinson These people in—Carlton, I think it was, [00:35:19:16 - 00:35:22:21] Dee Robinson or Clarendon, maybe Clarendon, adopted him. [00:35:22:21 - 00:35:23:15] Collin Capurso Really? [00:35:23:15 - 00:35:25:15] Dee Robinson And their name was Smith. [00:35:26:21 - 00:35:48:03] Dee Robinson So he's known as Frank Smith, but he was originally Frank Wilson, the son of George Wilson that was hung. I just found that this year. That's incredible. So don't think you've got all the answers for every question because that is something I never even thought about. Wow, I had no idea. No idea at all. Yeah. No. [00:35:48:03 - 00:35:55:05] Collin Capurso Because I've heard that story my entire life. Yeah, about the hanging and the— I think there was more to it. I never thought to look deeper into it. [00:35:55:05 - 00:36:00:08] Dee Robinson Well, I never did either until I was searching for George Wilson hanging, [00:36:01:09 - 00:36:02:16] Dee Robinson just winging it. [00:36:02:16 - 00:36:03:20] Speaker 3 Yeah, why not? [00:36:03:20 - 00:36:09:00] Dee Robinson And come up with this write-up of a paragraph on this man, [00:36:10:00 - 00:36:17:23] Dee Robinson Frank Wilson, Frank Earl Wilson, who changed his last name to Smith because he didn't want questions about his background. [00:36:17:23 - 00:36:21:11] Collin Capurso Association and such. Yeah. Yeah. That was my first assumption. [00:36:21:11 - 00:36:27:15] Dee Robinson Well, you can assume that because he changed his name. He doesn't want people to know his real name is Wilson. [00:36:28:20 - 00:36:32:22] Dee Robinson But that shows you, too, how well-known that hanging must have been. [00:36:32:22 - 00:36:36:22] Collin Capurso Yeah. Especially how much closer-knit the community was. [00:36:36:22 - 00:36:41:10] Dee Robinson Yeah, and he was only seven. We're talking about a man that was 28, 29. [00:36:43:04 - 00:36:48:09] Dee Robinson So a long time after that hanging, and yet he didn't want to be associated with it. [00:36:48:09 - 00:36:49:18] Collin Capurso I don't think I would either. [00:36:51:03 - 00:36:55:15] Dee Robinson I know when your father kills your mother and then they hang your father. No, you don't really want to be associated with that. [00:36:55:15 - 00:36:56:11] Collin Capurso You don't want to be known for that. [00:36:56:11 - 00:37:01:08] Dee Robinson I haven't found out anything about his sister. I think she maybe was better at hiding out than- Maybe. [00:37:02:20 - 00:37:04:17] Dee Robinson So you never know what you're going to find. [00:37:04:17 - 00:37:25:23] Collin Capurso And you've also been very involved in the community and educating lots of the community. And in the 1980s, you presented several hands-on workshops regarding cobblestone masonry, and it ended up earning you the New York State Preservation League Architectural Heritage Year Award. It was a very thoughtful. What inspired you to focus on cobblestone masonry, and what do you remember most about those kinds of workshops? [00:37:27:01 - 00:37:37:16] Dee Robinson I think probably what got me going was the number of people who would contact Cobblestone Society and say, "Who do I get to repair my house? [00:37:38:19 - 00:37:44:02] Dee Robinson My house is cobblestone, but I understand you're not supposed to put regular cement in there. [00:37:45:07 - 00:37:48:17] Dee Robinson But who do I get that doesn't use regular cement?" [00:37:50:09 - 00:38:04:01] Dee Robinson And the more questions I got, I asked people, I said, "Would you want to learn how to do it yourself so that maybe you could plug a hole until you find somebody?" And they said, "Yeah." Well, it happened that one of- [00:38:05:08 - 00:38:23:09] Dee Robinson well, over the years there were a couple, but one in particular that I can think of, men that did do some masonry himself got involved with the Cobblestone Society, and we researched the mortar of the time. Yeah, the limestone. The lime mortar. [00:38:25:08 - 00:38:41:14] Dee Robinson He and I kind of practiced together the amounts of what and what should be used and tried it out on the outhouses or- The smaller buildings. The smaller buildings so that if we messed it up it wouldn't be too bad. [00:38:41:14 - 00:38:43:10] Collin Capurso Not something on the church, for example. [00:38:43:10 - 00:38:45:22] Dee Robinson Yeah, no, we don't want to do that. We want to do that until we know what we're doing. [00:38:47:03 - 00:39:04:23] Dee Robinson But then we thought, "Well, if we know what to mix together to make the mortar, then we could teach people to mix that mix, but then how do you put the stone up on the wall and how do you make the design that's on the wall?" And so that's how the workshops got started. [00:39:06:13 - 00:39:23:05] Dee Robinson They were quite popular for quite a while. Really? Yeah, we had some down at the school. We had them at the ward house. We had them only on cobblestone property, but people came and wanted to know how to mix it because they wanted to fix that one part on their house or whatever. [00:39:23:05 - 00:39:26:17] Collin Capurso It's incredible. It's truly a lost art. [00:39:26:17 - 00:39:41:22] Dee Robinson It is. It is. But that little bit helped us get Mason going and he worked on things even on the other side of Rochester. He would get a call from somebody and say, "Come on, man. We understand how to make the mortar. Could you fix our house?" [00:39:43:09 - 00:40:03:20] Dee Robinson We had a time period there where we were letting people understand how to do something themselves if they couldn't find a "professional" to do it. Yeah. There are far and few between now and still. Oh, absolutely. There's fewer now that work with mortar of any kind than there were then. [00:40:03:20 - 00:40:08:03] Collin Capurso Yeah, especially after 1860. It's all Portland cement and that's the new one. [00:40:08:03 - 00:40:08:07] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:40:09:14 - 00:40:19:15] Dee Robinson It was a very, very [00:40:19:15 - 00:40:32:09] Collin Capurso hands-on process. You have to fire the limestone in a kiln. You have to wait for that to cool for a day or so. You have to take it out. You have to build a pit, throw in the water, add in the sand, mix it together and then put it into the stones. [00:40:32:09 - 00:40:48:03] Dee Robinson The story is about covering up the wall so nobody could see how you were doing it. No, that wasn't it. If the sun was shining directly on that mortar, it would dry it out too fast and the mortar would shrink and then you'd have to repair with a repair that you just did. [00:40:50:03 - 00:40:55:20] Dee Robinson The interpretation of why things were done was like local gossip. [00:40:57:02 - 00:41:03:04] Collin Capurso I've heard that especially they tried to complete cobblestone buildings in less than a year, at least before wintertime. [00:41:03:04 - 00:41:04:06] Dee Robinson Yes, yeah. [00:41:04:06 - 00:41:08:16] Collin Capurso I can imagine having ice and other elements going against an exposed wall like that. [00:41:08:16 - 00:41:13:15] Dee Robinson You wanted to get going early enough where you could get it done before the weather turned bad. [00:41:13:15 - 00:41:15:15] Collin Capurso So interesting. [00:41:15:15 - 00:41:16:06] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:41:16:06 - 00:41:26:22] Collin Capurso What can you tell me about receiving the architectural heritage year award? What did that recognition mean to you both personally and professionally? [00:41:28:18 - 00:41:31:12] Dee Robinson I guess it meant I was on the right track. [00:41:32:19 - 00:41:47:11] Dee Robinson I actually had done something that other people thought was worthwhile. I was trying to fix a problem here and to help people that had cobblestone houses in New York State or further. [00:41:48:15 - 00:42:09:05] Dee Robinson Didn't think about it being, "Oh wow, nobody's ever done that before." I was trying to help solve a problem. So it was very flattering to be given a state award like that to acknowledge what I'd been working on. Because it was a matter of there was nobody that knew how to mix the mortar. [00:42:10:10 - 00:42:16:22] Dee Robinson Maybe you can count them on one hand, the people in New York State that knew what softline mortar was. [00:42:16:22 - 00:42:20:11] Collin Capurso I mean, try finding someone that lives out in California that [00:42:20:11 - 00:42:21:06] Dee Robinson knows how to do it. [00:42:21:06 - 00:42:24:00] Collin Capurso Probably very few people, if any. [00:42:24:00 - 00:42:34:17] Dee Robinson Well, yeah, because this was used with stones once in a while with brick, but mostly with stone, whether it's field stone or cobblestone. [00:42:34:17 - 00:42:37:00] Collin Capurso The abundance here is far more [00:42:37:00 - 00:42:39:00] Dee Robinson than standing there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:42:39:00 - 00:42:43:02] Collin Capurso The core reason for the limestone deposits as well, you can harvest that. [00:42:43:02 - 00:43:08:03] Dee Robinson Yeah. Well, and we here, and I'm going to talk about that this next week at the library, the canal coming through influenced how this property was used. Because all of a sudden, we had a way to ship produce. Before that, all you had was Ridge Road and what we know is 98, which was half swamp, [00:43:09:05 - 00:43:19:18] Dee Robinson and your horses would get stuck in the swamp, let alone pulling a wagon with produce on it. It's not— Produce, that's the thing. It didn't happen. It's not feasible. [00:43:22:08 - 00:43:30:10] Dee Robinson It didn't happen. It didn't happen. And then you had a transport, and this area up here on the ridge, from the Ridge Road North, [00:43:31:10 - 00:43:36:13] Dee Robinson was the base of a post-glacial lake. [00:43:37:16 - 00:43:39:11] Dee Robinson And so there was a lot of stone. [00:43:39:11 - 00:43:40:14] Collin Capurso Lake Iroquois. [00:43:40:14 - 00:43:46:04] Dee Robinson Yeah. And so people needed to clear more land because they could grow more things to send on the canal. [00:43:46:04 - 00:43:47:18] Collin Capurso And they're finding all these stones over here. [00:43:47:18 - 00:43:51:22] Dee Robinson So they're finding all these stones. Well, what did they do with them? they build houses with them. [00:43:51:22 - 00:43:53:07] Collin Capurso Good old nuisance stones. [00:43:53:07 - 00:44:02:08] Dee Robinson Yeah, so, but the cobblestones too, they had, they made ways to sort them, small and medium and large. Little boards and the beaver rings. [00:44:03:09 - 00:44:08:01] Dee Robinson Yeah, so the Erie Canal going through influenced the whole area around here. [00:44:08:01 - 00:44:23:02] Collin Capurso Yeah, I mean, that's part of the reason why there's so many canal towns, isn't it called? I mean, it's sad that the canal's more or less just a waterway that you cross over. Yeah, it's kind of a touristy kind of thing. More than anything. I'll find people that bike the canal once a year or something. [00:44:23:02 - 00:44:23:21] Dee Robinson Right, yeah. [00:44:23:21 - 00:44:27:00] Collin Capurso Historically, it's not really as ingrained as it used to be [00:44:27:00 - 00:44:30:12] Dee Robinson actually in some ways. No, now it's really a tourist trap. [00:44:30:12 - 00:44:45:12] Collin Capurso Yeah, and I mean, all I can think of growing up is, you know, you hear, I've got a mule and her name is Sal, but that's all you really hear about it. We visited the locks in Lockport when I was a kid, but other than that, like, can't really put it all together. [00:44:45:12 - 00:44:48:18] Dee Robinson Can't relate to it. It's just, oh yeah, it's up there. [00:44:48:18 - 00:44:50:09] Collin Capurso Yeah, it's water, it's there. [00:44:50:09 - 00:44:50:18] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:44:50:18 - 00:44:52:00] Collin Capurso You have to cross over a bridge. [00:44:52:00 - 00:44:52:06] Dee Robinson Yeah. [00:44:52:06 - 00:44:52:23] Collin Capurso That's cool. [00:44:54:02 - 00:44:58:05] Dee Robinson Yeah, well then, the only thing I knew growing up in Pennsylvania was the song. [00:44:58:05 - 00:44:59:06] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:44:59:06 - 00:45:06:16] Dee Robinson The Erie Canal. And I remember singing it in music class, but it had nothing to relate to till I got up here. [00:45:06:16 - 00:45:09:05] Collin Capurso Can't visualize it, you've never probably seen it either. [00:45:09:05 - 00:45:11:18] Dee Robinson Erie Canal, it's water, okay, yeah. [00:45:11:18 - 00:45:13:20] Collin Capurso Yeah, they built that 200 years ago, that's cool. [00:45:13:20 - 00:45:18:17] Dee Robinson Yeah, so then I move in an area where I'm within a mile of the canal, right? [00:45:18:17 - 00:45:20:11] Collin Capurso Which is so interesting. [00:45:20:11 - 00:45:21:07] Dee Robinson Yeah, yeah. [00:45:21:07 - 00:45:35:00] Collin Capurso And then, you've also continued to present a variety of programs during the years, including women's Victorian language and local women in history. What kind of drew you to these topics and how have audiences responded to them? [00:45:35:00 - 00:45:40:06] Dee Robinson There again, it was a topic that I hadn't seen anybody doing. [00:45:40:06 - 00:45:40:13] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:45:40:13 - 00:45:45:00] Dee Robinson And I got hooked on researching some women. [00:45:46:18 - 00:45:50:10] Dee Robinson Because the first settler in town of Gaines was Elizabeth Gilbert. [00:45:52:18 - 00:45:54:18] Collin Capurso Gilbert Creek, which my grandfather named. [00:45:54:18 - 00:45:55:16] Dee Robinson There you go. [00:45:57:01 - 00:46:20:23] Dee Robinson But there again, women's history was, oh yeah, they cooked and they, you know, yeah. Well, some of them were the only person because their husband died. And there were several women that settled in Orleans County whose husband died on the way here or just after they got here. But instead of pulling up stakes and going back to Massachusetts or wherever they were from, they decided to stay and raise their kids here. [00:46:22:04 - 00:46:27:23] Dee Robinson So I thought that was quite something. Yeah. That women would feel that committed. [00:46:27:23 - 00:46:35:08] Collin Capurso Makes me think of stories I've heard of World War II and how women really essentially ran the country. [00:46:35:08 - 00:46:43:00] Dee Robinson Oh yeah. And that's the reason why the war happened in what it was. Ran the machines and produced things for the men to use in the war. [00:46:44:07 - 00:46:45:14] Collin Capurso You just don't hear that kind of-- [00:46:45:14 - 00:46:54:05] Dee Robinson You don't hear that kind of story about women. And I guess I got addicted and I decided, yes, we're gonna tell it here. [00:46:56:03 - 00:46:56:16] Dee Robinson It's amazing. [00:46:56:16 - 00:47:06:14] Collin Capurso And one of your programs focused on building preservation, which is all in the Cobblestone era. And why do you believe that this was an important subject for the community to understand? [00:47:07:16 - 00:47:10:04] Dee Robinson Because if we lose them, they're not gonna be rebuilt. [00:47:10:04 - 00:47:10:17] Speaker 3 Yeah. [00:47:10:17 - 00:47:29:04] Dee Robinson If you lose a wooden house, you can rebuild it. If you had pictures of it, you can make it look just like it did. But where are you gonna find thousands and thousands of Cobblestone that size to build that house? Probably not anywhere really. And I think that's the value of Cobblestone. It's unique. [00:47:29:04 - 00:47:31:16] Collin Capurso And no one building is the exact same. [00:47:31:16 - 00:47:48:01] Dee Robinson No, every building is different. They may use a similar stone. Or a style. But the design is different. Or the architectural style is different. Therefore, the amount of stone you need is different. It all varies on what you're trying to build. [00:47:48:01 - 00:47:55:06] Collin Capurso Do you think that's kind of an integral way of understanding the kind of framework of Orleans County or kind of Western New York? [00:47:55:06 - 00:48:18:14] Dee Robinson Western New York, I think, because Cobblestones were used to make blacksmith shops. And well houses and-- Out houses. Out houses. That they were. They were used for everything. And if the house wasn't built a Cobblestone, the smaller outbuildings were. But it was a way to get rid of the stone and you actually had a building for it. [00:48:19:19 - 00:48:30:00] Dee Robinson And I think it's unique because you go away from Western New York, you don't see as many. You get away from here and they aren't built. [00:48:30:00 - 00:48:33:22] Collin Capurso The abundance just decreases further south and you go and such. [00:48:33:22 - 00:48:37:00] Dee Robinson And you get places like Michigan and there's one house here. [00:48:37:00 - 00:48:38:07] Collin Capurso Yeah, I mean there's a few. [00:48:38:07 - 00:48:40:06] Dee Robinson There's five. One, two, and Canada or whatever. [00:48:40:06 - 00:48:46:11] Collin Capurso But I mean, that's about it. You'll never find a concentration like what's now. [00:48:46:11 - 00:48:47:22] Dee Robinson Right, it's right here, yeah. [00:48:47:22 - 00:49:03:04] Collin Capurso And you also had a presentation on the history of child which covered landmarks such as the Tillman's Village and now the Tavern on the Ridge and other enterprises. And what were some of the most surprising or perhaps little known stories you've uncovered about the Hamlet's past? [00:49:06:07 - 00:49:13:09] Dee Robinson I guess probably like I mentioned before, Farron Fraser that lived here was well known in the whole United States. [00:49:15:04 - 00:49:30:08] Dee Robinson The Tavern was here very early and was kind of the stop off. Every five or eight miles there was a Tavern. And like there was one in East Gaines and there's one here and there's one at Oak Orchard. [00:49:32:04 - 00:49:41:17] Dee Robinson So it was every so many miles that the stagecoach or wagon could travel before you needed another Tavern. [00:49:43:03 - 00:49:48:22] Dee Robinson So the idea that, and this was a crossroads. This was North and South and East and West. [00:49:50:01 - 00:49:52:11] Dee Robinson And North and South was to get to the lake [00:49:53:17 - 00:50:18:06] Dee Robinson and also from the lake to the canal or vice versa. So it had to go through Child's. So you had this busy intersection which was a itty bitty tiny little village. But it was a main intersection between East and West and North and South. And I got interested in knowing what had happened here and who lived here and why did it survive? [00:50:19:13 - 00:50:22:15] Dee Robinson Even this building, this is a big brick building. [00:50:22:15 - 00:50:27:14] Collin Capurso Yeah, 18, I think, 20, 30. I think it's 1834. [00:50:27:14 - 00:50:28:10] Dee Robinson I was gonna say I think 34. [00:50:28:10 - 00:50:30:05] Collin Capurso Pretty sure Samuels, Samuels the church. [00:50:30:05 - 00:50:30:19] Dee Robinson Yeah, [00:50:31:20 - 00:50:58:10] Dee Robinson but that again was connected to Proctor because it was his brother that had it built. So because of John Proctor, this area is here. He and his family and our house, his daughter was involved with living in our house, Cynthia Proctor. So, and that Balkans were related to Proctor and that's what owned our house. [00:50:58:10 - 00:51:00:03] Collin Capurso That's continued on. [00:51:00:03 - 00:51:07:07] Dee Robinson Yeah, yeah, and it was interesting to follow those little threads and find out why something was where it was. [00:51:07:07 - 00:51:12:02] Collin Capurso You might know the date, but I'm pretty sure Tillman's was constructed in 1823. [00:51:12:02 - 00:51:14:06] Dee Robinson Something like that, yeah, 1820s early. [00:51:14:06 - 00:51:15:04] Collin Capurso No, no, it was 20s, yeah. [00:51:16:04 - 00:51:30:01] Collin Capurso I mean, thinking about that in terms of your house as well. I live over on Densmore Road and Mr. Willard Densmore lived in my house and built a barn three times because it burned down twice. And just these tiny things. [00:51:30:01 - 00:51:33:12] Dee Robinson Little things that kind of get, well, they get you addicted to no more. [00:51:33:12 - 00:51:35:00] Collin Capurso It's just, it's a fascinating endeavor. [00:51:35:00 - 00:51:42:02] Dee Robinson What kind of person was he that he kept plugging away? I mean, he must have been a dedicated farmer because he rebuilt his barn three times. [00:51:42:02 - 00:51:52:03] Collin Capurso Burned down in 1929 and then he rebuilt it immediately on the old concrete foundation. Second time was a case of arson, rebuilt it a third time and it's what it is today now. [00:51:52:03 - 00:51:52:20] Dee Robinson Yeah, yeah. [00:51:52:20 - 00:51:58:18] Collin Capurso And inevitably he had to give up his farm work, but I mean, that's how it goes as you engage. [00:51:58:18 - 00:52:08:04] Dee Robinson But there again, that's the history of a dedicated farmer. He had his land, he had his house and he was gonna have that barn. [00:52:08:04 - 00:52:12:21] Collin Capurso And what do they contribute to the community? What ways did this flourish and happen? Right. [00:52:14:00 - 00:52:20:15] Collin Capurso I think the interconnectedness is something that is truly fascinating to witness and explore all together. [00:52:20:15 - 00:52:22:18] Dee Robinson Yeah, I think it is too, yeah. [00:52:22:18 - 00:52:33:02] Collin Capurso And kind of reflecting on your life and your legacy, what do you believe are the biggest challenges in preserving local history today and how can communities address those challenges? [00:52:33:02 - 00:52:38:15] Dee Robinson I think part of it is when you're documenting any history [00:52:39:16 - 00:52:42:09] Dee Robinson is to make sure you're not just documenting gossip. [00:52:43:21 - 00:52:56:12] Dee Robinson You gotta try and follow the thread. If it means going to the county clerk's office and tracking a deed, then that's what it means. If it means going to the town hall and looking for information there. [00:52:57:18 - 00:53:04:02] Dee Robinson But try and document so you know for sure what you're saying is true, not just gossip. [00:53:06:00 - 00:53:12:00] Dee Robinson When I say that, I think of my grandmother and my husband's mother. It's a good thing they weren't in the same community [00:53:13:03 - 00:53:29:06] Dee Robinson because they would pick up a phone and listen. When my phone and your phone, the one ring or two rings or three, I can remember my grandmother sitting listening like this on the phone so that she knew what was going on. [00:53:31:04 - 00:53:42:00] Dee Robinson And my husband's mother did the same thing. So it depends on where you get your information from. And can you really document it or is it just hearsay? [00:53:42:00 - 00:53:48:06] Collin Capurso I think especially as a college student recognizing the bias and lots of readings and stuff. I mean, everybody's biased. [00:53:48:06 - 00:53:50:04] Dee Robinson You have to accept that fact. Oh, absolutely, yeah. [00:53:50:04 - 00:53:55:14] Collin Capurso But knowing why did they write this? What were they thinking when they wrote this? Why do they believe this? [00:53:55:14 - 00:54:02:20] Dee Robinson Or you read it and you go, "Uh-huh, I know where they got this from." Exactly. And local history is like that. [00:54:02:20 - 00:54:03:16] Collin Capurso Very much so. [00:54:03:16 - 00:54:06:14] Dee Robinson You have to take it. It's like oral history. [00:54:07:23 - 00:54:14:14] Dee Robinson It's what your opinion is. But it doesn't mean there isn't a hint of reality that you could follow up. [00:54:14:14 - 00:54:22:11] Collin Capurso These stories always change and alter a little bit throughout time. Like I said with Mr. Bullard who was riding on perhaps a pig pen or a chicken coop. [00:54:22:11 - 00:54:23:05] Dee Robinson Yeah, or a chicken coop. [00:54:23:05 - 00:54:27:13] Collin Capurso I don't know what it is right now, but someone might've heard or seen something different. [00:54:27:13 - 00:54:40:01] Dee Robinson Right, but he was riding down the water. So it's like the water flooding at Gaines Basin. I mean, the canal broke and the water just flooded the ground. [00:54:41:22 - 00:55:06:17] Dee Robinson And also you have to think that somebody who's relating what happened, part of their panic is telling them what that is. So when you look at, especially oral history, you have to think about, you're not doubting what they're saying, but just doubt the little pieces. Make sure it fits together. [00:55:07:23 - 00:55:11:23] Dee Robinson And if you hear something different, follow through to decide. [00:55:13:02 - 00:55:18:17] Dee Robinson Because sometimes you can't prove right or wrong. You can prove different angles from the same story. [00:55:18:17 - 00:55:20:07] Collin Capurso You can make your own opinion, of course. [00:55:20:07 - 00:55:23:19] Dee Robinson You can make your own opinion, but it should be listed in my opinion is. [00:55:23:19 - 00:55:26:17] Collin Capurso Yeah, it's the belief of many. [00:55:26:17 - 00:55:28:09] Dee Robinson It's the belief of many, yeah. [00:55:29:15 - 00:55:31:03] Dee Robinson Give yourself an out because, [00:55:32:16 - 00:55:37:05] Dee Robinson unless you can on the Bible swear to it that it happened that way. [00:55:37:05 - 00:55:39:09] Collin Capurso The last thing you want is the townspeople raising pitchforks. [00:55:39:09 - 00:55:39:16] Dee Robinson Yes. [00:55:41:08 - 00:55:44:10] Dee Robinson And you don't want somebody's grandfather to get the bad vibe. [00:55:44:10 - 00:55:59:07] Collin Capurso And have you also mentored others in this field of historical preservation? And especially kind of in that realm, especially for aspiring people, what kind of advice do you have to offer for those looking to continue this kind of important work? [00:55:59:07 - 00:56:00:19] Dee Robinson On preservation? [00:56:01:22 - 00:56:04:22] Collin Capurso Preservation, research, anything in that realm. [00:56:04:22 - 00:56:13:06] Dee Robinson I would say, if you get told something, write it down, but then try and prove it as best you can. [00:56:15:13 - 00:56:32:04] Dee Robinson I know, because I speak from experience with my own grandmother, who would tell you something that happened and you find out later that, yeah, it kind of happened that way, but it wasn't exactly so and so. Really didn't do that. It was embellished. But if you're gonna do local history, you've got to try to prove. [00:56:33:06 - 00:56:41:12] Dee Robinson And it isn't that you're not believing somebody who tells you, but what I remember and what you remember could be completely different. [00:56:42:13 - 00:56:55:12] Dee Robinson Because you saw something from a mile away where I saw it right up and close. So you have to take their word for it, but don't offend them. [00:56:56:16 - 00:57:05:02] Dee Robinson You have to take what they say and then try and prove what they've told you before you go and tell it as gospel. [00:57:06:06 - 00:57:24:13] Collin Capurso I'm sure every person in this town knows the urban legend of a man that jumped through the decaying body of a cow inside of the canal and stuff. I don't know if it's true or not, but it's an urban legend that's been told for generations. It's a fun little trivia thing, I suppose, but is it authentic? [00:57:24:13 - 00:57:39:22] Dee Robinson Like when the bridge collapsed. You get so many stories about the bridge that collapsed and who was involved and what animals fell through and this guy that was walking across this tight rope from one building to the other, and that's what everybody was watching. [00:57:41:20 - 00:57:43:22] Dee Robinson So right there, and it's on a plaque, [00:57:45:05 - 00:57:47:07] Dee Robinson but you really don't know all the details. [00:57:48:12 - 00:58:06:12] Dee Robinson Because you can get the newspaper article. There were extensive newspaper articles that were written about it. But to know exactly what happened and who was actually killed if they fell out of their wagon and they were crushed by a horse or whatever. [00:58:06:12 - 00:58:16:23] Collin Capurso I think that's an important framework, especially for the contemporary eras. I could read Fox News versus CNN. It might be on the same topic, but it could be very different. [00:58:16:23 - 00:58:18:18] Dee Robinson Different angles on the same story. [00:58:18:18 - 00:58:31:06] Collin Capurso It's horrifying, but it's also beautiful in some regards. And as you reflect on your career, what are your hopes for the future of historical preservation here in Orleans County or Western New York for that matter? [00:58:33:01 - 00:58:52:02] Dee Robinson Just that it be taken seriously and not be just, oh, I'll tell you this story and then forget about it. Try and prove what that story is saying. Were those people, did they actually live here? Who were they related to? Or just the background of the story? [00:58:53:03 - 00:59:09:00] Dee Robinson Because, yeah, and there are stories that you can write up and say this is local stories about and label it as such. But if you're gonna tell it as gospel truth, you gotta back it up. You gotta make sure the details are right. [00:59:09:00 - 00:59:14:12] Collin Capurso And then is there a legacy that you've hoped to have left behind concerning [00:59:14:12 - 00:59:17:18] Dee Robinson all your-- I haven't really thought about a legacy other than, [00:59:18:22 - 00:59:28:07] Dee Robinson I mean, I did books, I related the history. I guess maybe that's my legacy is what I could put in print so that other people could read it later. [00:59:28:07 - 00:59:32:21] Collin Capurso I don't think any of those contributions will be overlooked in any way, shape, or form. [00:59:32:21 - 00:59:38:07] Dee Robinson Well, it was done because I got hooked. I got interested. [00:59:40:00 - 00:59:43:08] Dee Robinson Not because I necessarily had the background for it. [00:59:44:11 - 00:59:45:17] Dee Robinson But was curious. [00:59:45:17 - 00:59:48:05] Collin Capurso I mean, learning is a lifelong endeavor. [00:59:48:05 - 00:59:58:05] Dee Robinson It is. And I guess the thing that I would want people to remember is you hear something, document it. Make sure you can back it up. Check the facts. [00:59:59:14 - 01:00:04:10] Dee Robinson And because you check the facts, doesn't mean that you're degrading what you were told. [01:00:05:11 - 01:00:09:09] Dee Robinson But sometimes you check the facts, it makes a more interesting story than what you were told. [01:00:10:12 - 01:00:17:00] Dee Robinson And that is something that I think needs to be done more often is checking the facts of stories that are told. [01:00:17:00 - 01:00:18:18] Collin Capurso Understand interpretations of these things. [01:00:18:18 - 01:00:23:23] Dee Robinson Right, yeah. Yeah, because I mean, and I enjoy oral histories as much as anybody. For sure. [01:00:25:12 - 01:00:28:13] Dee Robinson But it doesn't mean that everything in that oral history is gospel. [01:00:30:18 - 01:00:39:22] Dee Robinson Because it can be a story that was told. Or somebody saw somebody, and I think that was Bill Smith, but it was really Tom Jones. [01:00:41:17 - 01:00:54:18] Dee Robinson So things like that happen. Not because it's done on purpose, but just because it happens. But if you're going to do documentation, then you've got to try and make sense out of it and prove what you're writing. [01:00:54:18 - 01:00:55:11] Collin Capurso Definitely. [01:00:55:11 - 01:00:56:01] Dee Robinson Yeah. [01:00:56:01 - 01:01:03:15] Collin Capurso And that about concludes the questions that I have for you. Are there any anecdotes, stories, or anything that you'd like to share before we conclude the interview? [01:01:03:15 - 01:01:07:13] Dee Robinson Oh, I don't think so. I think we've covered most everything. [01:01:09:00 - 01:01:18:18] Collin Capurso Sounds good to me then. Well, thank you so much for coming by today, Dee. Thank you for having me. I appreciated the museum, appreciates it. I'm sure those that potentially watch this in the future will also appreciate it. [01:01:18:18 - 01:01:19:14] Dee Robinson I hope so. [01:01:21:00 - 01:01:22:06] Dee Robinson Thanks for having me. Of course.