[05:49:19:02 - 05:49:43:08] Catherine Cooper Speaking of already, the one thing I did notice so differently, that was so different from the diploma course at UCD was that the diploma course at UCD was very academic. It was about pretty much about how computers work and all of that, whereas the course here was very much more practical and hands-on. [05:49:43:08 - 05:49:44:06] Collin Capurso Gotcha. [05:49:45:06 - 05:49:53:23] Collin Capurso And do you perhaps remember a moment, small, even accidental, when history first became more than just a subject, when it felt like something you felt compelled to pursue? [05:49:55:15 - 05:49:57:11] Catherine Cooper Possibly from reading when I was younger, [05:49:58:19 - 05:50:17:05] Catherine Cooper reading historical novels, because I realized that they brought me back in time. And I could experience a near of history that I hadn't lived in, but through the gifts of so many writers, I could go back and feel it. [05:50:17:05 - 05:50:25:06] Collin Capurso It almost surrounds you in a way. And I've read many books that make me feel like I'm almost there. It's far beyond my time. [05:50:26:21 - 05:50:41:04] Collin Capurso And when you had first encountered Orleans County, its towns, landscapes, and stories, were there any particular places or traditions that kind of stirred your curiosity about the past, a building, a family story, or a marker on a roadside, perhaps? [05:50:44:05 - 05:50:54:21] Catherine Cooper I remember when I came here first, I just felt an affinity with the countryside, because it was so similar to what I had grown up in. [05:50:57:02 - 05:51:05:06] Catherine Cooper And the ruralness of it really appealed to me. [05:51:07:13 - 05:51:09:11] Catherine Cooper I'm not sure if that answers that question. [05:51:09:11 - 05:51:10:05] Collin Capurso I think so. [05:51:11:17 - 05:51:19:04] Collin Capurso I can only imagine with the hills and other landscapes in Ireland that, although we're probably a little more flat here in Orleans County. [05:51:19:04 - 05:51:30:05] Catherine Cooper Yeah, much too flat. I do miss the mountains, because there's something very grounding about the mountains. They're always there. They're always the same. That's why I've always loved the Aerondacks. [05:51:31:05 - 05:51:39:22] Catherine Cooper So you can think about whatever craziness is going on in the world. You look at the mountains and they've seen it all. [05:51:39:22 - 05:51:40:07] Collin Capurso They're still there. [05:51:41:10 - 05:51:45:01] Collin Capurso I mean, some of them are older than trees, like the Appalachians, for example. [05:51:46:19 - 05:51:58:13] Collin Capurso And you served for many years as the director at the Leaweed and Memorial Library. How did that work shape not only your understanding of memory and record, but what to preserve and how to best preserve the things that you found? [05:52:06:10 - 05:52:07:08] Catherine Cooper Memory and record. [05:52:14:01 - 05:52:33:10] Catherine Cooper I, again, I'm harking back to an era which probably sounds antediluvian at this point, which was only the 1990s. But the Internet has changed everything so dramatically. At that point, the library had microphone. [05:52:34:22 - 05:52:51:04] Catherine Cooper And microphone of the local newspapers was a great thing. It was a great thing. And we even got to have a microphone printer. And that was huge because you could print out what you saw. [05:52:52:04 - 05:52:54:08] Catherine Cooper And if you think back to those days, [05:52:56:16 - 05:53:01:00] Catherine Cooper we're so spoiled now. Oh, yeah, it's all at our fingertips. It's all at our fingertips. [05:53:02:03 - 05:53:17:07] Catherine Cooper Because then when you went for a search, you would have to know the date of what you were looking for. If you didn't have the date, say people would contact us for obituaries or for an account of something. If you didn't have a date, it was like a needle in a haystack. [05:53:19:21 - 05:53:44:20] Catherine Cooper My experience with history at Lee Weeden had to do with newspapers and microphone because how I got interested in local history was a gentleman named Ed Grinnell. He was researching Medina and he was getting the material to write a book and he would come in every afternoon. [05:53:46:02 - 05:54:38:07] Catherine Cooper Regularly for an hour or two and work on the microphone. And because he was a regular, we would talk and what he was looking for. And invariably something would happen with the machine or the printer. And I sort of became a technician in some way. So there was a lot of interaction. And then when he wrote the book, because I had done English, I'm not sure how it all came about, but I edited the book. I read it, which meant reading it five or six times. And by the time I'd read it five or six times, I knew everything like that. And also the town of Ridgeway historian was also a regular. And so between the two of them, I got very interested in the local history. [05:54:38:07 - 05:54:53:16] Collin Capurso Very nice. And then you mentioned earlier that you went to a Catholic school as part of your upbringing. And how did that kind of shape your upbringing in faith, whether it be ritual or belief, but in how you came to value memory, tradition, continuity? [05:54:54:19 - 05:54:58:15] Catherine Cooper It imbued our whole lives. [05:55:01:15 - 05:55:16:18] Catherine Cooper We were taught that the Catholic church and the Catholic religion was the only true religion. And that was what we believed. [05:55:18:01 - 05:55:23:02] Catherine Cooper When I was growing up, if you went into a Protestant graveyard, it was a sin. [05:55:25:03 - 05:55:25:08] Speaker 3 Wow. [05:55:31:00 - 05:55:31:07] Catherine Cooper Yes. [05:55:31:07 - 05:55:34:10] Collin Capurso So it was very rigid. [05:55:34:10 - 05:55:36:19] Catherine Cooper Very rigid. [05:55:37:20 - 05:55:57:23] Catherine Cooper We were taught a lot about sin and there was a great deal of guilt in everything. [05:55:59:08 - 05:56:07:21] Catherine Cooper But that's just the way it was. There was a morality that we learned that we absorbed that was good. [05:56:09:07 - 05:56:12:09] Catherine Cooper I feel that sometimes that's a bit lacking nowadays. [05:56:13:11 - 05:56:25:19] Catherine Cooper I think that there's no harm to have a little bit of guilt and fear and a sense of your place in the world and a sense of godliness. [05:56:27:03 - 05:56:34:15] Catherine Cooper Whoever your maker is, whoever you believe your maker to be. I think that that's a good thing. It's a little bit lacking. [05:56:34:15 - 05:56:44:07] Collin Capurso I mean, everyone makes inevitably a mistake here and there. But it's, I think in the realm of guilt, how you grow from that and evolve as a person is what kind of matters in the end. [05:56:44:07 - 05:56:59:05] Catherine Cooper But we had a variety of teachers in terms of discipline and kindness. We went from one extreme to another. [05:57:00:11 - 05:57:07:05] Catherine Cooper They were generally good people who had our best interests in mind. [05:57:14:21 - 05:57:15:23] Catherine Cooper What was the question again? [05:57:17:06 - 05:57:22:13] Collin Capurso How Catholic faith kind of shaped your upbringing and things that you've experienced due to that? [05:57:23:21 - 05:57:26:03] Catherine Cooper It totally absorbed our lives. [05:57:27:03 - 05:57:56:01] Catherine Cooper But again, it was it was not a questioning. It was you were given the doctrine and it was imposed and you learned it and you regurgitated it. Religion and religion was taught through the schools. Say we would be prepared for first communion through school. We would go to confession on the school day. We leave the class and march down to the church and all of that. [05:58:00:13 - 05:58:01:14] Catherine Cooper In secondary school, [05:58:03:10 - 05:58:25:05] Catherine Cooper say in second in high school here, the children, the students leave the classroom and go to another class. In our structure, we were in the same class all day and the teachers would come in. And so before every new lesson, whether it was Latin or English, teacher would come in, you stand up and say a prayer. [05:58:27:00 - 05:58:27:22] Catherine Cooper Every single class. [05:58:29:07 - 05:58:32:06] Collin Capurso Is that still kind of the case in Ireland today as much? [05:58:32:06 - 05:58:34:17] Catherine Cooper Not so much. [05:58:34:17 - 05:58:37:11] Collin Capurso No, it's not really the thing here in the United States. [05:58:37:11 - 05:58:59:15] Catherine Cooper No, no, no, it's quite changed. I mean, the religious orders are still nominally in charge of the schools, but the society has become so changed and so non-religious that it's totally different. [05:58:59:15 - 05:59:02:15] Collin Capurso A little more agnostic in some respects, I would say. [05:59:02:15 - 05:59:03:14] Catherine Cooper Gotcha. [05:59:06:20 - 05:59:07:01] Catherine Cooper Yes. [05:59:08:14 - 05:59:21:10] Collin Capurso And then at some point you became the county historian after serving at the library in 2020. A couple months later, if I remember correctly, you became the county historian. What drew you to want to assume that kind of role? [05:59:21:10 - 05:59:36:09] Catherine Cooper Well, I had retired and the job came open and I thought, well, oh, I didn't. I never expected that I would be appointed the county historian, partly because I'm not from Orleans County. [05:59:37:17 - 05:59:42:23] Catherine Cooper But I was and it was a great honor. It was a great [05:59:45:18 - 05:59:54:14] Catherine Cooper privilege, a great. But yes, it was a great honor for me to have been appointed. [05:59:54:14 - 05:59:56:13] Collin Capurso It's an incredible role. [05:59:56:13 - 06:00:05:15] Catherine Cooper It is an incredible role. And being familiar with the people in whose footsteps I follow, that made it even more daunting [06:00:07:14 - 06:00:10:15] Catherine Cooper and frightening and terrifying. [06:00:11:17 - 06:00:13:19] Catherine Cooper But I just thought I would [06:00:15:23 - 06:00:16:19] Catherine Cooper give it my best shot. [06:00:16:19 - 06:00:18:21] Collin Capurso You seem to warm up to it pretty well. [06:00:20:00 - 06:00:27:05] Collin Capurso And what does a typical week or even a day look like at the office or is there not even a typical day in that regard? [06:00:27:05 - 06:00:35:06] Catherine Cooper There isn't. I usually go in with a plan in mind. And it's typical that I do not adhere to that plan. [06:00:36:16 - 06:00:37:22] Catherine Cooper I work two days a week. [06:00:39:10 - 06:00:41:01] Catherine Cooper I'm paid for two days a week. [06:00:42:04 - 06:00:54:10] Catherine Cooper I work more than that. It has has become my whole. It's become an all consuming thing, which is great because it keeps me occupied. [06:00:57:07 - 06:00:57:20] Collin Capurso Keeps you busy. [06:00:57:20 - 06:01:01:17] Catherine Cooper Keeps me busy. And I love it. It just becomes my mind. [06:01:04:01 - 06:01:04:08] Catherine Cooper Typical. [06:01:06:15 - 06:01:13:00] Catherine Cooper There are emails to be answered. There's usually some county stuff to deal with. [06:01:17:17 - 06:01:24:15] Catherine Cooper And then I'm usually working on some project or other. Like this year has been taken up with a bicentennial. [06:01:24:15 - 06:01:25:15] Speaker 4 Oh, yes. [06:01:25:15 - 06:01:31:22] Catherine Cooper And this summer then has been taken up with preparation for cemetery tours. [06:01:33:10 - 06:01:41:08] Catherine Cooper And then usually on Wednesday, I think, oh, I've got to get a topic for the illuminating columns. [06:01:42:13 - 06:01:52:01] Catherine Cooper And I try to find something that appeals to me and sparks an interest in my mind. And then I work on that on maybe Friday and Saturday. [06:01:52:01 - 06:01:54:13] Collin Capurso You're almost like a full fledged college student. [06:01:54:13 - 06:01:54:21] Catherine Cooper Yeah. [06:01:54:21 - 06:01:57:15] Collin Capurso Cramming in a paper at the last. Yes. Yes. [06:01:57:15 - 06:02:05:17] Catherine Cooper And oftentimes I will have a topic and go to write on it and find it doesn't it. It's flat. [06:02:05:17 - 06:02:06:16] Collin Capurso It's a dead end. [06:02:06:16 - 06:02:10:01] Catherine Cooper It's a dead end. It just doesn't do anything for me. I can't. [06:02:11:07 - 06:02:18:19] Catherine Cooper Can't make it rise to the occasion. So then I'm back to the drawing board and thinking furiously. [06:02:18:19 - 06:02:24:06] Collin Capurso Although I can imagine must be nice kind of having your own autonomy and what you choose to study. [06:02:24:06 - 06:02:24:18] Catherine Cooper Absolutely. [06:02:24:18 - 06:02:30:02] Collin Capurso What you want to write about because I frequently read your editorials in the hub every week. [06:02:30:02 - 06:02:30:07] Catherine Cooper Yeah. [06:02:30:07 - 06:02:31:16] Collin Capurso I always loved them. [06:02:31:16 - 06:02:37:16] Catherine Cooper Thank you. Sometimes they're sparked by something that's happening in the county. [06:02:37:16 - 06:02:38:06] Speaker 4 Yeah. [06:02:38:06 - 06:02:43:12] Catherine Cooper So I'll try to tie in with that. Other times it's just some quirky thing that I came across. [06:02:45:13 - 06:02:54:07] Catherine Cooper And other times it's determined by the time of year. Gotcha. You know whether it's Veterans Day or Memorial Day. It's a holiday or something. [06:02:54:07 - 06:02:55:03] Collin Capurso Gotcha. [06:02:59:08 - 06:03:02:06] Catherine Cooper But usually it's determined by something that just sparks. [06:03:02:06 - 06:03:20:14] Collin Capurso It kind of jumps a sort of thing. And then in the process of organizing and refiling all these records you must encounter both discovery and difficulty. Could you share an example of where something like a document may have surprised you or where the act of preservation itself just became somewhat of a puzzle to solve in the end. [06:03:20:14 - 06:03:38:19] Catherine Cooper It's like cataloging a book. Sometimes you get a book and you don't know whether it goes in history or with a topic. It could go here. It could go there. And you have to determine where best it suits. And that's the problem with filing. [06:03:39:23 - 06:04:04:10] Catherine Cooper It could go here or it could go there. And so you have to determine which one and then see if you're going to put a reference from. Whichever. Whichever. Even so simple as something like essay cook. I say cook was very important in Medina history and Orleans County history. Well do you put them under S or do you put them on a cook. [06:04:05:18 - 06:04:08:18] Collin Capurso Gotcha. There's not really a wrong answer. There is. [06:04:08:18 - 06:04:40:04] Catherine Cooper Right. But there's so much of that. And you just have to determine where it goes. Also the time it takes to to to organize a filing system is immense because it's just a little piece of paper but it takes a long time to to get through determining where it goes and then. [06:04:41:21 - 06:04:44:15] Catherine Cooper So getting through a box of stuff takes takes a while. [06:04:44:15 - 06:04:46:16] Collin Capurso Not to mention you have to read all of it. [06:04:46:16 - 06:05:01:02] Catherine Cooper I have been blessed by having a co a former colleague of mine from the library. She has come every Monday for two or three hours and she helps with the filing. [06:05:02:06 - 06:05:08:17] Catherine Cooper And it's her volunteer service and she she loves it and I love having her come. [06:05:08:17 - 06:05:10:14] Collin Capurso I'm sure it's an incredible help. [06:05:10:14 - 06:05:25:19] Catherine Cooper It is a great help. It is a great help. Partly because she's very efficient and knowledgeable and partly because we've worked together prior to that for 10 10 15 years or so. So that was a gift. [06:05:25:19 - 06:05:41:19] Collin Capurso Kind of in the public realm. What kinds of inquiries come most often from the general public and beneath those surface questions say about genealogy buildings or businesses. What deeper longings do you think people bring when they come to you seeking questions or answers about the past. [06:05:43:07 - 06:05:45:05] Catherine Cooper They're all trying to connect with the past. [06:05:48:03 - 06:05:51:04] Catherine Cooper A lot of the questions are to do with family. [06:05:51:04 - 06:05:52:09] Speaker 4 I figured yeah. [06:05:52:09 - 06:06:14:14] Catherine Cooper And there is sort of a theory in local history and public local history that we all we don't do genealogy. Well genealogy is what people are interested in. That's what you have to do. That's what it's all about. [06:06:14:14 - 06:06:15:16] Collin Capurso So you connect to [06:06:15:16 - 06:06:26:03] Catherine Cooper your ancestors because people want to know who their ancestors are. So I try to deal with genealogy questions as best I can. [06:06:28:13 - 06:06:31:01] Catherine Cooper A lot of questions are about people's houses. [06:06:32:10 - 06:06:51:19] Catherine Cooper They will want to have they want to know if we have photographs of their houses. Well we don't. Most often not. Most often because A people never took photographs of their houses and even if they did take photographs of their houses they probably wouldn't have sent them to them. [06:06:51:19 - 06:06:53:05] Collin Capurso And it's probably gone. [06:06:53:05 - 06:06:54:09] Catherine Cooper They're probably gone. [06:06:54:09 - 06:07:00:18] Collin Capurso I'm fortunate enough to have a few old ones in my house from this original owner but even that it's only two. [06:07:00:18 - 06:07:15:04] Catherine Cooper Yeah. So you have to try to explain this freely that there aren't such but every now and then you will find something that you will find one. [06:07:15:04 - 06:07:18:20] Collin Capurso Assuming especially if it was a house of a notable figure or something. [06:07:18:20 - 06:07:19:19] Catherine Cooper Yes. Yeah. [06:07:21:20 - 06:07:26:16] Catherine Cooper What other questions? [06:07:26:16 - 06:07:39:07] Collin Capurso Well thinking kind of still in the public area. How do you approach the challenge in making historical records accessible to the public not only as material to be consulted but as stories that can be lived with and understood? [06:07:39:07 - 06:07:44:10] Catherine Cooper I try to do that in the columns by indicating the material that we have. [06:07:46:14 - 06:08:02:02] Catherine Cooper I will often say this this came from such a file or did these photographs are on file at the Orleans County Department of History just to give an indication of what is available and what is there. [06:08:04:00 - 06:08:08:14] Catherine Cooper I guess digitizing is the way of the future. [06:08:11:17 - 06:08:36:23] Catherine Cooper And one of my great passions has been having the newspapers digitized. We started that at Lee Weeden. And again to indicate to people that the word New York State Historic Newspapers is a resource. I love that website so much. [06:08:36:23 - 06:08:38:07] Collin Capurso It's helped me with so many things. [06:08:38:07 - 06:08:38:22] Catherine Cooper So many things. [06:08:40:08 - 06:08:44:01] Catherine Cooper And actually the newspapers dot com. [06:08:45:04 - 06:09:01:00] Catherine Cooper The local stuff. Yes. That one's good too. Every now and then you will come across a nugget that you would not find in the local papers. But they seem to have had correspondence that would send material to those papers. Buffalo and Rochester. [06:09:02:14 - 06:09:10:11] Catherine Cooper And I will invariably glean a treasure of a nugget from that paper. [06:09:10:11 - 06:09:27:02] Collin Capurso I remember using that website my freshman year in college for a history paper I had to write. I did it on the Civil War with Louisville and Kentucky and I found a bunch of newspapers on there. They were pretty upset so to speak shall we say with the Civil War. [06:09:28:03 - 06:09:37:04] Collin Capurso And when you organized the history talk series what were you hoping those conversations would achieve? Not just in the sharing of knowledge but in the building of community memory. [06:09:37:04 - 06:09:44:03] Catherine Cooper Actually I will go back further than that the history talks because I've been a member of the [06:09:46:01 - 06:10:17:15] Catherine Cooper Dioda Historical Society since about in the late 2000s. And as a member of because I worked at the library and because I was on the board it evolved that I would become the person who organized the public programs during the years. I've been doing it for many many years and we would host the programs of the library. We did about eight every year. [06:10:18:22 - 06:10:56:11] Catherine Cooper And it has been interesting watching that grow and so the history talks is an extension of that. The dialogue that we hope to generate is just an interest in history and also to make people realize that they are part of history and that they can contribute to it. Because two of the programs one of the annual programs we have in the Dioda is show and tell. [06:10:57:11 - 06:11:40:10] Catherine Cooper It's always the January program and people can bring in an item to share. And that is one of the great very popular programs of the year. Because people all have things and then I somehow on YouTube I came across a British program called Letters Alive and I thought this is great. So for three years we had a Letters Alive program and people would bring in letters. It was the February of the year and people would bring in letters that they had preserved and kept and they would read them and explain the context. It was brilliant and it gave people a sense of [06:11:40:10 - 06:11:41:18] Collin Capurso agency. [06:11:43:09 - 06:11:46:03] Catherine Cooper They're part of history too and they've got history. [06:11:46:03 - 06:11:56:10] Collin Capurso I love that kind of bottom-up approach. It's not so much these big figures in history that do these things but where do you stand in this? What is your family? How did you get this object? [06:11:56:10 - 06:11:58:10] Catherine Cooper Yeah right. What does it mean to you? [06:11:58:10 - 06:11:59:19] Collin Capurso I think that's the most beautiful thing. [06:11:59:19 - 06:12:10:16] Catherine Cooper So those have been great and those have generated an interest in the programs. We've had some very good programs. We've had some reenactors. [06:12:11:16 - 06:12:12:04] Catherine Cooper We've had [06:12:16:09 - 06:12:18:02] Catherine Cooper anything you name it we've had it. [06:12:19:06 - 06:12:29:21] Collin Capurso And then kind of looking back at all those things what has been the most memorable experience in planning a public history event? Was there a moment when you felt the past suddenly come alive for the people that were involved? [06:12:29:21 - 06:12:36:06] Catherine Cooper This year was the bicentennial. Oh I can imagine. That was a great [06:12:38:16 - 06:13:00:09] Catherine Cooper experience planning the event that we had on April 15th and I had a great committee of 10 people and they each had different gifts and they each brought their gifts to this event and we worked very very well. We had a great time and we put on programs that I think [06:13:01:10 - 06:13:13:17] Catherine Cooper went very well and it was an honor to be part of to make that connection back to 200 years ago when the county was formed. [06:13:13:17 - 06:13:18:09] Collin Capurso I'm happy you bring up the bicentennial because that's a great segue into my next question. [06:13:19:12 - 06:13:33:15] Collin Capurso Recently Orleans County marked its bicentennial and when you think across those 200 years what transformation strike you the most whether it be industry, architecture, but perhaps maybe in the spirit of the county itself? [06:13:35:00 - 06:13:51:03] Catherine Cooper In the spirit of the county where we've changed from self-sufficiency and farming and clearing the land to dependency, [06:13:52:08 - 06:13:53:17] Catherine Cooper artificial intelligence, [06:13:54:17 - 06:14:25:01] Catherine Cooper and now we're from using the land for food and survival now we're changed. We're using the land for power, solar power and that's a huge transformation because we're not producing food so much. We don't see the land as for food whereas I being from a farmer, a farming background always see the land as providing food. [06:14:26:10 - 06:14:26:15] Catherine Cooper Yes, [06:14:28:08 - 06:14:33:10] Catherine Cooper looking back on the 200 years of course it was transportation that determined everything. [06:14:34:12 - 06:14:36:15] Catherine Cooper The ridge road, the canal, [06:14:38:00 - 06:14:39:00] Catherine Cooper the railroad, [06:14:40:02 - 06:14:41:00] Catherine Cooper the thruway, [06:14:42:07 - 06:14:49:06] Catherine Cooper all parallel, all changed the county in some way that massively by [06:14:53:08 - 06:15:09:23] Catherine Cooper changing the way the economy worked, changing the way people worked, and then of course the county followed the main historical cultural sociological changes from as time went by. [06:15:11:06 - 06:15:16:05] Catherine Cooper Religion grew and then religion kind of dissipated. [06:15:17:14 - 06:15:44:16] Collin Capurso I guess like the industrialization of things. We're not inherently industrial but we can still kind of see these things happening. I think one of the most apparent contrasts in my experience of learning was kind of north of 31 that main street area where Burger King and other stuff where there used to be these big luxurious houses all torn down for business. [06:15:45:19 - 06:15:54:10] Collin Capurso It's a sad thing to see happening but it's another product of the time of history and really depressing sense. [06:15:55:14 - 06:16:07:16] Collin Capurso You've also written about family bands, muck farming, and other overlooked stories. Why do you think that such stories, humble though that they may seem, carry so much meaning for the life of this county? [06:16:07:16 - 06:16:12:18] Catherine Cooper Because they connect with the real people. I agree. [06:16:15:03 - 06:16:32:10] Catherine Cooper From my point of view, history is not all about the big houses and the big people. It's about the small houses and the small things because that's what people's hearts are about. [06:16:33:17 - 06:16:42:19] Catherine Cooper When I write my articles, I like to zone in and then zone out and I like to [06:16:44:00 - 06:16:48:23] Catherine Cooper present a story in such a way that you can draw your own conclusions. [06:16:50:04 - 06:16:50:19] Catherine Cooper You can [06:16:52:02 - 06:16:59:15] Catherine Cooper say, "I don't like to preach. It's not my place." But I do like to present things in [06:17:01:03 - 06:17:04:18] Catherine Cooper a certain way so that people can draw their own conclusions. [06:17:07:00 - 06:17:36:21] Catherine Cooper The bands and the muck farms appeal to me because I came from a farm and I was interested in the muck and how it developed and what was this western New York agriculture company and how did that get about and why were these financial people from New York State involved in farming up here? [06:17:38:12 - 06:17:51:04] Catherine Cooper The other one that I was very interested in was, "These are all things that interest me." Because they interest me, then I want to find out the Iroquois. How did that start? How did that all start? [06:17:53:01 - 06:18:04:03] Catherine Cooper What were the mink and who used the mink and how did the mink tie into the economy at the time? They did because people were wearing fur coats. [06:18:06:14 - 06:18:10:23] Catherine Cooper But the mink and the... [06:18:13:23 - 06:18:17:09] Catherine Cooper What was the other animal? It wasn't ferrets. [06:18:17:09 - 06:18:18:03] Collin Capurso Are you thinking of beaver? [06:18:18:03 - 06:18:42:21] Catherine Cooper Beaver. Yeah, the beaver. The beaver. How did that tie into the mink? And the beaver, of course, were huge. Huge, yes. But there was a gentleman who owned land there and he had a furrier business in Buffalo and it just one thing led to another. But [06:18:46:15 - 06:19:05:20] Catherine Cooper because, I guess, because that knowledge is forgotten, we take for granted the Iroquois. We don't think back to when it wasn't there. We don't think back to how it developed. We don't think back to the people who made it happen because there were... [06:19:08:01 - 06:19:14:00] Catherine Cooper I wrote an article about one gentleman who collected eggs and he was involved in bird eggs. [06:19:15:04 - 06:19:17:13] Catherine Cooper It was at a time when people were allowed to collect bird eggs. [06:19:19:04 - 06:19:20:21] Catherine Cooper And the other gentleman, [06:19:22:04 - 06:19:24:08] Catherine Cooper environmental people who [06:19:26:00 - 06:19:31:05] Catherine Cooper saw the potential of forming this massive place. [06:19:32:23 - 06:19:36:13] Catherine Cooper And so I went off hunting. [06:19:41:18 - 06:19:41:23] Catherine Cooper Yes. [06:19:43:00 - 06:19:55:17] Collin Capurso Yeah, definitely that bottom-up approach is far more important than looking at the presidents that served in these periods of times and their accomplishments, but it all stems from the bottom. [06:19:55:17 - 06:19:57:19] Catherine Cooper Right, because this is local history. [06:19:57:19 - 06:20:36:10] Collin Capurso Especially in such a small area as this one. I mean, not that we don't have notable figures that have come out of here and such, but what makes them notable and how does that influence us and how do we influence them in that sort of regard. And it's a beautiful thing to look at. And you kind of mentioned a little bit, but especially looking at the ways that you look at things that are more so your interest, but in your Illuminating Orlean's column, which story have you found the most interesting or what did you enjoy pursuing the most? Probably not for its ease, but because it reveals something unexpected or changed the way that you yourself think of the county. [06:20:37:15 - 06:20:45:08] Catherine Cooper I guess some of those topics that I've already mentioned the Iroquois, the Marklands, [06:20:49:02 - 06:20:54:23] Catherine Cooper and some I did a story on Frank Curvin who was a gentleman in the Diner. [06:20:56:23 - 06:21:05:13] Catherine Cooper Just those quirky things that interest me, I guess. [06:21:07:18 - 06:21:17:08] Catherine Cooper And sometimes they're determined by a newspaper article that I would come across, reference to something. [06:21:21:18 - 06:21:22:07] Catherine Cooper Yes. [06:21:22:07 - 06:21:34:05] Collin Capurso Very nice. And then kind of looking at all these things, what are you currently researching and are there any subjects or neglected corners of history that you still hope to bring into light with your research currently? [06:21:35:07 - 06:21:38:22] Catherine Cooper Well, right now I'm working on cemeteries because I'll give you a ready for cemetery. [06:21:38:22 - 06:21:41:05] Collin Capurso I think you did, what was it, Millville recently? [06:21:41:05 - 06:21:58:15] Catherine Cooper Yes, and then this week I'm doing Greenwood, which is an interesting cemetery because it has a connection to the Norwegian influx in 1825. And that's a whole fascinating topic. [06:22:01:06 - 06:22:03:12] Catherine Cooper Other than that, [06:22:04:13 - 06:22:10:13] Catherine Cooper I've always been interested in a gentleman from the Diner. His name was George Kennan. [06:22:13:06 - 06:22:21:07] Catherine Cooper His story is amazing, but that's a long story for another time. [06:22:22:11 - 06:22:25:05] Catherine Cooper I'm always interested in barns. [06:22:26:19 - 06:22:46:15] Catherine Cooper I would love to do a census of barns. Oh, that sounds amazing. But so far I haven't gotten to it. When I became town of Ridgeway historian in 2012, I think I tried to take photographs of barns in Ridgeway. [06:22:50:07 - 06:22:58:08] Catherine Cooper But this might strike you as odd. Times have changed and you cannot just drive up to a person's barn. [06:22:59:11 - 06:23:06:08] Catherine Cooper It's only less than 15 years, but the society has changed. [06:23:09:12 - 06:23:17:08] Catherine Cooper I would like to do that, but in order to do that, you have to get people's permission. [06:23:18:22 - 06:23:19:23] Catherine Cooper Some people [06:23:21:19 - 06:23:39:00] Catherine Cooper are very generous and some people are very private, which is completely understandable. But the thing is that the barns are linked to our agricultural past. Definitely. And they are beautiful. Even in decay, they are beautiful. [06:23:39:00 - 06:23:42:12] Collin Capurso I'll have to fill you in on my barn at some point. [06:23:42:12 - 06:23:43:07] Catherine Cooper Oh, absolutely. [06:23:43:07 - 06:23:47:13] Collin Capurso I live at the old Willard Densmore homestead. [06:23:47:13 - 06:23:48:05] Catherine Cooper Okay. [06:23:48:05 - 06:23:54:07] Collin Capurso And I'll tell you about it more afterwards, but it burned down twice back in the day. [06:23:54:07 - 06:23:55:01] Catherine Cooper Okay. [06:23:55:01 - 06:23:57:09] Collin Capurso Both times. So I'll fill you in on that a little bit. [06:23:57:09 - 06:23:59:16] Catherine Cooper Right. I've got a stash of photographs [06:24:01:14 - 06:24:03:09] Catherine Cooper of Ridgeway barns. [06:24:03:09 - 06:24:03:14] Speaker 4 Yeah. [06:24:03:14 - 06:24:08:03] Catherine Cooper And actually in the last two weeks, two of those barns have burned. [06:24:09:17 - 06:24:12:04] Catherine Cooper And I have photographs of the original barns. [06:24:12:04 - 06:24:17:06] Collin Capurso So maybe it's a good thing that the owners of the house didn't chase you away with a pitchfork at that time or something. [06:24:17:06 - 06:24:18:05] Catherine Cooper Right. Yeah. Yeah. [06:24:19:08 - 06:24:29:23] Catherine Cooper Chase me away with a pitchfork or shoot me or send it, have a dog come out after me. That is the fear. [06:24:32:12 - 06:24:33:18] Catherine Cooper So barns. [06:24:33:18 - 06:24:43:07] Collin Capurso Definitely. And working with people such as other historians and volunteers, in your view, what is their role in shaping how a community remembers the past? [06:24:46:19 - 06:24:48:10] Catherine Cooper What is their role in shaping? [06:24:48:10 - 06:24:50:00] Collin Capurso Or even a historian in general. [06:24:53:13 - 06:24:54:09] Catherine Cooper By making, [06:24:57:21 - 06:25:11:02] Catherine Cooper by being open to questions and trying to direct people as best they can to the material. By not having an agenda. [06:25:11:02 - 06:25:13:06] Collin Capurso That's another big one. [06:25:17:07 - 06:25:18:07] Catherine Cooper And by being patient. [06:25:20:08 - 06:25:37:23] Collin Capurso And then how might younger people, say, for example, who might feel that history is distant from them, in your opinion, come to see themselves as part of this work of preservation memory, perhaps influencing them to see themselves as an agent in history rather than almost just names and dates. [06:25:37:23 - 06:25:49:21] Catherine Cooper A lot of that has to do with teaching teachers, social studies teachers, I believe have a history teachers have a great opportunity there to spark interest. [06:25:51:22 - 06:25:55:17] Catherine Cooper Of course, younger people are going to look at it as boring. [06:25:56:17 - 06:26:11:15] Catherine Cooper It's the nature of use. And sometimes it is a gift or an interest that comes with age and with time. [06:26:12:18 - 06:26:12:19] Catherine Cooper And [06:26:14:04 - 06:26:18:12] Catherine Cooper you can't force it upon use. You just have to [06:26:20:10 - 06:26:23:19] Catherine Cooper encourage them to be open to it at some point. [06:26:25:08 - 06:26:29:22] Catherine Cooper And I think people sort of gravitate to it with time. [06:26:29:22 - 06:26:32:11] Collin Capurso I agree. And that's kind of the case for me [06:26:32:11 - 06:26:33:20] Catherine Cooper in some regards as well. [06:26:33:20 - 06:26:43:22] Collin Capurso Yeah. You think of youth and I didn't care much for when I was studying, but it wasn't until I got older when I realized I really like this and I want to pursue this more in depth. [06:26:43:22 - 06:26:57:08] Catherine Cooper I will. There's one thing I want to add here and that is that my husband's family and his background has been a great [06:26:59:15 - 06:27:05:08] Catherine Cooper asset to me in this whole journey because and it's something I just [06:27:07:17 - 06:27:30:15] Catherine Cooper didn't think about for the longest time until I realized that since his family has been here since the 1840s. And they've lived in the same house all the way through all the way through. Well, actually, it was 1869. So there's there's so much history in the house and [06:27:34:02 - 06:27:51:18] Catherine Cooper just getting familiar with that gave me a great background in the county. And then also since he had a funeral home, he knew everybody and he knows the connections between people. [06:27:52:21 - 06:27:54:08] Catherine Cooper And that has been a great asset. [06:27:54:08 - 06:27:55:12] Collin Capurso I can only imagine [06:27:55:12 - 06:27:57:15] Catherine Cooper a resource because [06:27:59:10 - 06:28:04:10] Catherine Cooper because everybody's interconnected in a small place like this. Everybody's interconnected. [06:28:04:10 - 06:28:05:18] Collin Capurso Everyone knows the landscape. [06:28:07:07 - 06:28:11:17] Catherine Cooper And that's another point when people ask me [06:28:13:13 - 06:28:18:13] Catherine Cooper how can you be a local historian here when you're not from here? My response is that [06:28:20:12 - 06:28:23:01] Catherine Cooper people are the same, whether you're from [06:28:24:19 - 06:28:42:23] Catherine Cooper Lockport or London or Liverpool or Longford. You have the same interests in life. You want to know who you are, who you came from, who your people are, where they are, where they were, where they were buried. [06:28:44:02 - 06:28:46:11] Catherine Cooper And it doesn't matter. The names change. [06:28:46:11 - 06:28:47:10] Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. [06:28:47:10 - 06:28:53:20] Catherine Cooper But the concepts are the principles are universal. [06:28:55:10 - 06:29:07:07] Collin Capurso And then since becoming the county historian, what have you learned about Orleans County that surprised you the most? Something especially coming all the way from Ireland, something that maybe altered your sense of place being here? [06:29:08:09 - 06:29:20:03] Catherine Cooper Well, I will answer that in two ways, I think. One is when I bring people here. [06:29:21:16 - 06:29:40:15] Catherine Cooper I've had tons of friends and cousins and relatives and I've done a lot for Orleans County Tourism over the years. And when they come here, and I see the counties through their eyes, they're amazed at Lake Ontario. [06:29:42:00 - 06:29:53:08] Catherine Cooper I mean, they look at Lake Ontario and they say it's the sea because ordinarily a lake is something you look across and you see land on some side or other. [06:29:53:08 - 06:29:54:11] Collin Capurso These lakes are huge. [06:29:54:11 - 06:30:01:17] Catherine Cooper These lakes are huge. Do you look that way, that way, that way? Any horizon. It's just water. [06:30:02:18 - 06:30:15:19] Catherine Cooper And I think that people from Orleans County do not appreciate the enormity of the asset that the lake is. Definitely. The natural wonder, the resource. [06:30:17:00 - 06:30:20:05] Catherine Cooper I call it the gold of our future because it's fresh water. [06:30:20:05 - 06:30:21:13] Collin Capurso That's a beautiful way of putting it. [06:30:21:13 - 06:30:31:00] Catherine Cooper And I think we should be cognizant of that and be very careful of how we treat it and how we allow it to be exploited. [06:30:32:18 - 06:30:38:10] Catherine Cooper The other thing that is amazing to people who come here is the ruralness of this county. [06:30:39:18 - 06:30:46:02] Catherine Cooper You can drive through roads and not see a car or a house for miles and miles. [06:30:47:17 - 06:30:52:04] Catherine Cooper And the contrast that the Amish provide, [06:30:53:04 - 06:30:55:23] Catherine Cooper it is amazing that... [06:30:57:07 - 06:31:16:03] Catherine Cooper And again, it's a thing we take for granted, but it is amazing to have in our midst a group of people who are self-sufficient and who provide such a contrast of lifestyle to the, what we call the normal modern life stuff. [06:31:17:22 - 06:31:28:01] Catherine Cooper You can be driving on a road here and you have an Amish farmer here with his horse and you'll have a combine over here. [06:31:29:05 - 06:31:31:11] Catherine Cooper Just like that. [06:31:32:14 - 06:31:35:01] Catherine Cooper And that is an amazing contrast. [06:31:37:22 - 06:31:41:10] Catherine Cooper And another thing is the continuity of family. [06:31:41:10 - 06:31:42:14] Speaker 4 Oh yes. [06:31:42:14 - 06:31:44:20] Catherine Cooper From the settlers down. [06:31:46:00 - 06:31:59:21] Catherine Cooper People look back on 200 years, oh it's a long time. It isn't. It's just a drop in the bucket of time. But it is amazing that so many families who are the early settlers here still have descendants in the area. [06:32:01:14 - 06:32:14:23] Catherine Cooper And in public perception, the press, not the press, but movies and television, how America is perceived. It's perceived to be very ruthless. [06:32:16:20 - 06:32:21:02] Catherine Cooper But it isn't in fact. It's very rural and very rooted. [06:32:22:23 - 06:32:30:04] Collin Capurso Which is, it's funny to think of in that regard where I say to someone not from New York state. I'm from New York. [06:32:30:04 - 06:32:30:18] Catherine Cooper Yeah. [06:32:30:18 - 06:32:32:19] Collin Capurso Immediately gravitate towards the city. [06:32:32:19 - 06:32:32:23] Catherine Cooper Yeah. [06:32:32:23 - 06:32:36:04] Collin Capurso But we're so much more than just our urban aspects. [06:32:38:09 - 06:32:47:17] Collin Capurso And then we kind of tapped into it earlier, but why does local history matter? And why does it matter here? And a county so small on the map, but so large in the memory of its people. [06:32:47:17 - 06:33:01:10] Catherine Cooper It matters because as I said, people need to know who they are and where they're from and who their people are. And there is a richness of local history available here. [06:33:02:13 - 06:33:03:21] Catherine Cooper People don't realize it. [06:33:04:21 - 06:33:20:23] Catherine Cooper I think that actually things like on Facebook, Memories of Medina and Memories of Albion are very good resources for making people aware of their history. And I think they have made people more appreciative of their history. [06:33:22:23 - 06:33:26:11] Catherine Cooper And they've made people more appreciative of recent history. [06:33:30:19 - 06:33:30:19] Catherine Cooper Because [06:33:35:02 - 06:33:45:06] Catherine Cooper many of the connections on there are towards recent events or recent photographs or all of that. Yeah. I [06:33:45:06 - 06:34:01:21] Collin Capurso have an affinity for the Towpath Trading Post thing on Facebook. And while sometimes gears more towards Buffalo area, it's still these local things that occurred in this region of New York. And I find that immensely valuable in the end. [06:34:01:21 - 06:34:09:13] Catherine Cooper I think people are more interested in it. They're more open to it. And they have more and more of an appreciation of it. [06:34:15:11 - 06:34:15:14] Catherine Cooper Yes. [06:34:15:14 - 06:34:33:08] Collin Capurso And then what do you hope for the future history of Orleans County? Would it be digitization, public programs or something less tangible, an attitude of care towards the past? What you hope to see with efforts of history in the future and looking back on these things? [06:34:33:08 - 06:34:38:05] Catherine Cooper Digitization, yes. [06:34:40:22 - 06:34:44:10] Catherine Cooper I guess just an openness and an appreciation. [06:34:45:16 - 06:35:30:03] Catherine Cooper And I think, again, as I said, I think that is coming about through saying Medina, the revitalization of Bence, not Adam, Andrew, Andrew Meyer and the Hart House. And just seeing young people putting so much interest and investment into those buildings and then the return on those investments by being that people are interested in, people come and people from outside appreciate them. And that gives people from here and a response of, oh, [06:35:31:04 - 06:35:51:20] Catherine Cooper well, I took this for granted. I've been driving by it for years and never looked at it. But people from Buffalo and wherever are coming out to appreciate it. The cobblestone has been amazing in... [06:35:51:20 - 06:35:54:15] Collin Capurso Kind of preservation. [06:35:54:15 - 06:36:10:00] Catherine Cooper Preservation and doing a very professional and classy job of providing a central resource for [06:36:11:04 - 06:36:12:22] Catherine Cooper yeah. Items of history. [06:36:12:22 - 06:36:22:04] Collin Capurso That notion you mentioned of young people trying to kind of carry this on forward. That's part of what this is right here. I'm the young person kind of carrying that torch once again. [06:36:23:11 - 06:36:33:01] Collin Capurso And then how do you wish the legacy of Orleans County to be remembered? What do you hope our posterity would see in us as individuals that have lived here and occupied this space? [06:36:36:02 - 06:36:38:15] Catherine Cooper Scoot stewards of our resources. [06:36:41:05 - 06:36:45:04] Catherine Cooper Preservers of what is best in daily life. [06:36:49:05 - 06:36:50:16] Catherine Cooper Ethical people going forward. [06:36:50:16 - 06:37:02:22] Collin Capurso Yeah. And then my last question for you, which is more for yourself, is, well, I guess, do you hope to leave behind with all of your accomplishments, engagement, and work that you've done throughout your life? [06:37:11:11 - 06:37:27:00] Catherine Cooper I guess that I would have organized material so that people could find it. Yeah. Because that is what I am about. I've often said that I don't need to know everything. I just need to know where to find it. Exactly. [06:37:27:00 - 06:37:28:10] Collin Capurso I feel the same way. [06:37:28:10 - 06:37:31:14] Catherine Cooper Where to direct people to find it. And just [06:37:36:11 - 06:37:42:13] Catherine Cooper maybe by my example of being somebody who wasn't from here, but who [06:37:44:03 - 06:37:48:00] Catherine Cooper promoted the history of the area because it is worthwhile. [06:37:48:00 - 06:37:48:19] Speaker 4 Yeah. [06:37:56:06 - 06:38:00:15] Catherine Cooper And somebody who tried to look at [06:38:03:18 - 06:38:09:03] Catherine Cooper the minutiae and get a larger picture from it. Definitely. [06:38:09:03 - 06:38:19:13] Collin Capurso And that ends up concluding the questions that I have for you. But is there anything that you would like to share or something that perhaps we didn't get to as in depth that you'd like to elaborate more upon? [06:38:21:10 - 06:38:24:07] Catherine Cooper I would like to say something about George Kennan. [06:38:24:07 - 06:38:24:19] Collin Capurso Okay. [06:38:24:19 - 06:38:33:16] Catherine Cooper Because this is illustrative of how information access has changed over time. [06:38:34:19 - 06:38:36:08] Catherine Cooper So when I began at the Wieden Library, [06:38:37:16 - 06:38:40:00] Catherine Cooper there were some books, old books in the back. [06:38:41:04 - 06:38:50:05] Catherine Cooper And one of them was called Tent Life in Siberia. And I asked somebody, well, why is Tent Life in Siberia here? It was an old book from the 18. [06:38:51:16 - 06:39:02:02] Catherine Cooper And nobody knew and nobody could make a connection. And gradually, as time went by and the internet evolved, [06:39:03:02 - 06:39:11:19] Catherine Cooper I discovered that George Kennan had lived in Medina. And he had written this book called Tent Life in Siberia, [06:39:12:20 - 06:39:31:01] Catherine Cooper and some other books also, Siberia and the Exile System. And I was curious about this person. And this evolved over, you know, just several years. And then I realized that he had lived in Medina. And then I realized that he had lived within the stone's throw of my house. [06:39:32:13 - 06:39:37:06] Catherine Cooper And, you know, it went on from there. And so I did, [06:39:38:17 - 06:39:42:05] Catherine Cooper he was my passion for many years. And [06:39:46:15 - 06:39:50:16] Catherine Cooper his story is great. He was born in Norwalk, [06:39:53:04 - 06:39:55:22] Catherine Cooper Ohio. [06:39:57:01 - 06:40:04:15] Catherine Cooper And he, his mother's maiden name was Morse, and she was a distant relative of Samuel Morse. [06:40:05:22 - 06:40:16:18] Catherine Cooper And he, so George was around the time of the Civil War, and he became a telegraph person. That was his skill. [06:40:18:02 - 06:40:21:16] Catherine Cooper And it all ties in with communication. [06:40:23:07 - 06:40:35:23] Catherine Cooper Then he got a job on this wild adventure. And it was at the time when they were trying to connect the world by cable. [06:40:37:01 - 06:40:43:11] Catherine Cooper And there were two theories. One was that you connect by underground cable to Europe. [06:40:44:19 - 06:41:47:10] Catherine Cooper And that actually was done to a place on the west coast of Kerry where my aunt had taught, where one of my aunts had taught. So I had this connection to the cable. A small world. And then a small world. And then here's this George. And he went on an expedition the other way. There was a company who got a ship ready and they sailed from California up to Russia. And they had a crew go across Russia to scope out the direction of cables. And he wrote, he was young, and he wrote this great book. It's called Tent Life in Siberia. And you should absolutely read it because it has, he's such a so fresh. He's had his experiences and the people he met and the tribes and the strange things they would eat and the fermented mushroom, wine, and the comments about, [06:41:48:12 - 06:41:49:02] Catherine Cooper "Ah, it's brilliant." [06:41:50:04 - 06:42:03:08] Catherine Cooper And so he wrote that. And then he got to the end of his journey and only to find out that their project was going to be mixed because this one had worked. [06:42:04:11 - 06:42:25:19] Catherine Cooper And so he came back and he wrote a book about his experiences because he needed to make money and he would go around talking. And then he came to, then he was out of a job. And so he ended up coming to Medina because his brother was working in Medina in the bank. And so George Cannon, who had been to Russia, settled in Medina for a few years. He lived, [06:42:28:06 - 06:42:41:14] Catherine Cooper you know where Avanti's Pizza is? He lived on the other end of that block. He got a job in the bank. That's where the Union Bank was. His brother lived across the street and he married the lady who lived across the street. [06:42:41:14 - 06:42:43:06] Collin Capurso So here [06:42:43:06 - 06:42:47:18] Catherine Cooper he was, he'd been to Russia and his life was not as square. [06:42:47:18 - 06:42:49:13] Collin Capurso He centers right here in the city. [06:42:49:13 - 06:43:12:07] Catherine Cooper But then he went off to Washington as a correspondent for the AP, who worked for the APA Associated Press. And he became, he was still interested in Russia and he went back a few times. And then he became involved in a embroiled in a controversy because he was supporting the SAR and the Siberian Exile System. [06:43:13:10 - 06:43:14:16] Collin Capurso And he, yeah, [06:43:16:02 - 06:43:16:15] Collin Capurso right before. [06:43:16:15 - 06:43:43:18] Catherine Cooper And so he went on a trip to say, there's nothing going wrong here. And then when he got there, he found that it was horrible and absolutely cruel and inhumane. And he came back and he wrote a book about that. And he became the expert on Russia at that time. And he still maintained his home in Medina and he and his wife were back and forth. And then he ended up dying and he's buried in Boxwood. [06:43:44:22 - 06:43:49:10] Catherine Cooper And that's George and fascinating story. [06:43:49:10 - 06:43:59:02] Collin Capurso Yeah, that's incredible. I never realized that. I guess someone from such a small place could have accomplished so much, especially so far away. [06:43:59:02 - 06:44:09:20] Catherine Cooper Right. And the strange thing about it, he had a great nephew whose name was also George Kennan, whose date and month, birth, they shared, but not the year. [06:44:09:20 - 06:44:11:13] Collin Capurso I'm sure that totally wasn't confusing. [06:44:12:16 - 06:44:29:20] Catherine Cooper So when you're looking for stuff, it's because all you get is George Frost Kennan, because he was involved in Russia. He was a big diplomat and he also got thrown out of Russia, just as his great nephew. [06:44:31:08 - 06:44:34:19] Catherine Cooper Both George Kennan's ended up being exiled from Russia. [06:44:34:19 - 06:44:38:09] Collin Capurso And just thinking of this predates the formation of the Soviet [06:44:38:09 - 06:44:39:12] Catherine Cooper Union as well. [06:44:39:12 - 06:44:41:16] Collin Capurso I mean, this is Sars Russia here. [06:44:41:16 - 06:44:52:12] Catherine Cooper And my George, as I call him, my George had an observation that the Bolsheviks will never change their spots. [06:44:54:06 - 06:45:01:16] Catherine Cooper And it has proved to be true. [06:45:03:10 - 06:45:05:16] Catherine Cooper So that's George. That's incredible. [06:45:05:16 - 06:45:07:11] Collin Capurso But [06:45:07:11 - 06:45:27:14] Catherine Cooper there's an example of a relatively forgotten person who can be discovered through searching and there may be more out there. [06:45:27:14 - 06:45:30:18] Collin Capurso Oh, I'm sure that there are so many untapped stories that are just waiting to be found. [06:45:35:07 - 06:45:41:00] Catherine Cooper But actually, this may sound very strange. [06:45:43:19 - 06:45:47:14] Catherine Cooper It all depends on whether people want to be found. [06:45:48:18 - 06:45:49:17] Collin Capurso This is true as well. [06:45:49:17 - 06:45:51:05] Catherine Cooper And George would often, [06:45:52:14 - 06:45:57:18] Catherine Cooper I think he would tap me on the shoulder and say, "I think I'm being forgotten about." [06:45:59:19 - 06:46:05:23] Catherine Cooper And there's an element of serendipity in local history. [06:46:07:06 - 06:46:25:10] Catherine Cooper Sometimes you will just come across the right thing at the right time. And it may not make sense to you at the time when you found it. But invariably, when I find something strange, I'll think to myself, "Oh, that's an interesting nugget of information." Invariably, something will come up about that later. [06:46:26:13 - 06:46:29:01] Catherine Cooper Somebody will ask about it or there will be some connection. [06:46:29:01 - 06:46:31:20] Collin Capurso It's like the universe just waiting for you to discover it. [06:46:31:20 - 06:46:51:13] Catherine Cooper And Sue Starkweather Miller, who is a town of Albion historian and I, I've often discussed and laughed about this because it happens between us. I'll find something and think, "Oh, that's interesting." And she'll come in the next week and she'll say, "Do you know anything about this?" Or, "You know what I found?" And it'll be the same arcane piece of information. [06:46:52:15 - 06:47:04:22] Catherine Cooper And it's like the universe is out there tapping us on the shoulder. But again, there are sometimes you're looking for people and you can't find anything. And they are so elusive and you think, "Okay." [06:47:06:02 - 06:47:13:18] Collin Capurso I've had this happen with papers I've written where I'll find maybe this one guy said this beautiful thing and I'm like, "I want to find more about him." [06:47:13:18 - 06:47:14:21] Catherine Cooper Nothing. [06:47:14:21 - 06:47:17:14] Collin Capurso There's nothing. It's just the one documented thing. [06:47:17:14 - 06:47:18:23] Catherine Cooper He does not want to be found. [06:47:20:19 - 06:47:31:04] Catherine Cooper And in this world of facts and science, that doesn't make sense. But in the world of history and spirits and people in the past, [06:47:32:13 - 06:47:33:08] Catherine Cooper it does. [06:47:33:08 - 06:47:35:18] Collin Capurso They're all kind of looming in some regards. [06:47:35:18 - 06:47:38:19] Catherine Cooper And there ends my tale. That's amazing. [06:47:38:19 - 06:47:40:16] Collin Capurso Is there anything else that you'd like to share? [06:47:40:16 - 06:47:47:02] Catherine Cooper Thank you very much for this opportunity. As I say, I rarely am the person being asked the questions. [06:47:48:13 - 06:47:50:23] Catherine Cooper I hope I made sense. I hope it was coherent. [06:47:50:23 - 06:47:53:05] Collin Capurso Hope I was challenging enough. [06:47:53:05 - 06:47:58:07] Catherine Cooper Oh yes, very challenging. Very, very challenging. Great questions. [06:47:58:07 - 06:48:01:00] Collin Capurso I appreciate it. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. [06:48:01:00 - 06:48:01:03] Catherine Cooper You're very welcome. [06:48:01:03 - 06:48:03:01] Collin Capurso You're doing a great service for-- [06:48:03:01 - 06:48:11:17] Catherine Cooper And you also, and I think I have no fear of the future because I think, I know who could be the next County of the story. [06:48:12:23 - 06:48:13:09] Collin Capurso I'm honored. [06:48:14:15 - 06:48:15:21] Collin Capurso Well, again, thank you so much. [06:48:15:21 - 06:48:17:00] Catherine Cooper Thank you.