1
00:00:03,253 --> 00:00:05,588
 Big edit button on that machine.

2
00:00:06,214 --> 00:00:11,302
 (Laughing) (Laughing)

3
00:00:11,302 --> 00:00:13,471
 All right, I'm good to go.

4
00:00:13,972 --> 00:00:14,931
 Whenever you're ready, Colin.

5
00:00:16,015 --> 00:00:18,143
 Actually, one thing I like to do,

6
00:00:18,351 --> 00:00:20,270
 and it's helpful for me, if you're

7
00:00:20,270 --> 00:00:22,188
 gonna edit it, is to have each

8
00:00:22,188 --> 00:00:23,648
 person say and spell their name,

9
00:00:24,065 --> 00:00:25,734
 just so you, if you're doing

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00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:27,485
 anything, just for reference, and

11
00:00:27,485 --> 00:00:29,487
 it's also a good audio check too.

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00:00:29,779 --> 00:00:30,697
 So Colin, can you say

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00:00:30,697 --> 00:00:31,322
 and spell your name?

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00:00:31,906 --> 00:00:32,949
 Colin Capurso,

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00:00:33,324 --> 00:00:37,287
 C-O-L-L-I-N-C-A-P-U-R-S-O.

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00:00:39,164 --> 00:00:39,831
 Bill, could you say

17
00:00:39,831 --> 00:00:40,457
 and spell your name?

18
00:00:40,874 --> 00:00:43,585
 Bill, B-I-L-L.

19
00:00:44,127 --> 00:00:45,086
 What's your last name, Bill?

20
00:00:46,254 --> 00:00:48,131
 Latin, L-A-T-T-I-N.

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00:00:48,673 --> 00:00:49,716
 Great, okay.

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00:00:50,633 --> 00:00:51,968
 Whenever you're ready, Colin.

23
00:00:52,177 --> 00:00:53,052
 All righty.

24
00:00:54,262 --> 00:00:55,597
 This is an interview of Carrie

25
00:00:55,597 --> 00:00:58,183
 Wilson, or Bill, Latin, conducted by

26
00:00:58,183 --> 00:01:01,102
 Colin Capurso on June 12th, 2025.

27
00:01:01,895 --> 00:01:03,688
 Bill Latin is a lifelong resident of

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00:01:03,688 --> 00:01:05,023
 Orleans County, New York, and has

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00:01:05,023 --> 00:01:06,483
 played a central role in preserving

30
00:01:06,483 --> 00:01:07,108
 and interpreting

31
00:01:07,108 --> 00:01:08,193
 the region's history.

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00:01:08,777 --> 00:01:10,361
 He has served as the Orleans County

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00:01:10,361 --> 00:01:11,780
 historian and was previously the

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00:01:11,780 --> 00:01:13,323
 director slash curator of the

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00:01:13,323 --> 00:01:15,366
 Colosseum Society for 40 years,

36
00:01:15,366 --> 00:01:16,826
 retiring in 2010.

37
00:01:17,452 --> 00:01:18,620
 In addition to his work as a

38
00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:20,497
 historian, Latin has dedicated much

39
00:01:20,497 --> 00:01:21,623
 of his life to antiquing,

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00:01:21,956 --> 00:01:23,333
 collection, exhibit

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00:01:23,333 --> 00:01:24,584
 curation, and the arts.

42
00:01:25,418 --> 00:01:27,212
 Part of a family with deep roots and

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00:01:27,212 --> 00:01:29,255
 local historical preservation, Bill

44
00:01:29,255 --> 00:01:30,882
 represents generations of the Latin

45
00:01:30,882 --> 00:01:32,550
 family, playing a key role in

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00:01:32,550 --> 00:01:33,885
 safeguarding the heritage of the

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00:01:33,885 --> 00:01:35,303
 Hamlet of Childs in the broader

48
00:01:35,303 --> 00:01:36,429
 Orleans County area.

49
00:01:37,013 --> 00:01:38,556
 His father, Carrie Latin, was

50
00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:39,849
 instrumental in founding the

51
00:01:39,849 --> 00:01:42,268
 Colosseum Museum in the 1960s, and

52
00:01:42,268 --> 00:01:43,728
 Bill continued that legacy with a

53
00:01:43,728 --> 00:01:45,271
 lifelong commitment to education,

54
00:01:45,688 --> 00:01:47,232
 community engagement, and

55
00:01:47,232 --> 00:01:48,358
 historical storytelling.

56
00:01:49,067 --> 00:01:50,443
 Through his decades of work, Bill

57
00:01:50,443 --> 00:01:51,945
 has become a vital steward of local

58
00:01:51,945 --> 00:01:53,905
 memory, helping to shape how Orleans

59
00:01:53,905 --> 00:01:54,781
 County understands

60
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,241
 and values its past.

61
00:01:58,409 --> 00:01:59,369
 Into our questions.

62
00:02:00,995 --> 00:02:02,455
 What can you tell me about your

63
00:02:02,455 --> 00:02:03,581
 childhood and early

64
00:02:03,581 --> 00:02:04,457
 life in this town?

65
00:02:06,125 --> 00:02:08,378
 Well, I was born in 1944.

66
00:02:10,088 --> 00:02:13,716
 Grew up on my family's farm on

67
00:02:13,716 --> 00:02:14,968
 Gaines Basin Road.

68
00:02:17,554 --> 00:02:21,432
 My first remembrance of any

69
00:02:21,432 --> 00:02:22,809
 schooling was at

70
00:02:22,809 --> 00:02:25,895
 Martha Moore's preschool.

71
00:02:27,772 --> 00:02:32,193
 She held a preschool in her home

72
00:02:33,444 --> 00:02:36,906
 on the corner of South Clinton and

73
00:02:36,906 --> 00:02:38,366
 Beaver Street in Albion.

74
00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:41,452
 And then the next year,

75
00:02:42,787 --> 00:02:46,791
 I started kindergarten at the Albion

76
00:02:46,791 --> 00:02:51,337
 Grammar School and graduated in the

77
00:02:51,337 --> 00:02:54,716
 class of 1963 from

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00:02:54,716 --> 00:02:55,758
 Albion High School.

79
00:02:56,509 --> 00:02:57,093
 Very nice.

80
00:02:57,468 --> 00:03:03,558
 I remember as a child, my father

81
00:03:03,558 --> 00:03:06,853
 wasn't very progressive as a farmer,

82
00:03:07,687 --> 00:03:13,568
 and so I sort of can say I saw the

83
00:03:13,568 --> 00:03:15,278
 tail end of late 19th century and

84
00:03:15,278 --> 00:03:18,781
 early 20th century farming.

85
00:03:18,781 --> 00:03:26,039
 My father was the last farmer to use

86
00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:30,418
 a self binder and then have the

87
00:03:30,418 --> 00:03:31,794
 wheat thrashed with

88
00:03:31,794 --> 00:03:32,921
 a thrashing machine.

89
00:03:33,546 --> 00:03:35,089
 He was the last one to do that.

90
00:03:36,049 --> 00:03:38,384
 Everybody else in the area had gone

91
00:03:38,384 --> 00:03:41,304
 to using a combine.

92
00:03:42,388 --> 00:03:42,555
 As far as entertainment, I was very

93
00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:44,182
 interested as far as entertainment.

94
00:03:45,016 --> 00:03:47,143
 I wasn't the kind of a kid that was

95
00:03:47,143 --> 00:03:49,354
 interested in sports, but I remember

96
00:03:49,354 --> 00:03:53,316
 as a pastime, I was always drawing.

97
00:03:54,651 --> 00:03:56,694
 And here's a sample

98
00:03:56,694 --> 00:03:58,696
 of some of my drawings.

99
00:03:59,030 --> 00:04:01,783
 I guess I had put these together in

100
00:04:01,783 --> 00:04:05,286
 this role to preserve them.

101
00:04:05,662 --> 00:04:07,789
 I took this out of a part of a role

102
00:04:07,789 --> 00:04:08,748
 of drawings that I

103
00:04:08,748 --> 00:04:09,791
 made when I was a kid.

104
00:04:09,832 --> 00:04:10,833
 I think these drawings

105
00:04:10,833 --> 00:04:14,212
 go back to the 1950s.

106
00:04:15,046 --> 00:04:17,632
 The one way over here by my right

107
00:04:17,632 --> 00:04:19,634
 hand is a drawing of a house that

108
00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:22,011
 was torn down on

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00:04:22,011 --> 00:04:23,763
 South Clinton Street.

110
00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:26,724
 And I recall seeing this house when

111
00:04:26,724 --> 00:04:30,144
 I attended Martha Moore's preschool,

112
00:04:31,646 --> 00:04:32,021
 which would have

113
00:04:32,021 --> 00:04:35,024
 been in the late 1940s.

114
00:04:36,985 --> 00:04:38,903
 Similar to what you were saying with

115
00:04:38,903 --> 00:04:41,072
 your father, being one of the last

116
00:04:41,072 --> 00:04:43,032
 people kind of farming, so to speak,

117
00:04:43,449 --> 00:04:44,742
 what kind of role did your family,

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00:04:45,034 --> 00:04:46,828
 more specifically your father, play

119
00:04:46,828 --> 00:04:48,871
 in your interest with local history

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00:04:48,871 --> 00:04:50,164
 and historical preservation?

121
00:04:52,417 --> 00:04:55,878
 Well, I think I certainly get much

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00:04:55,878 --> 00:04:58,756
 of my appreciation for collecting

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00:04:58,756 --> 00:05:00,008
 and antiques and

124
00:05:00,008 --> 00:05:02,510
 aesthetics through my parents.

125
00:05:03,803 --> 00:05:06,305
 My father in particular had a great

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00:05:06,305 --> 00:05:11,644
 appreciation for handmade objects

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00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:15,023
 from the 19th century.

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00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:17,734
 It hit one of his prized

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00:05:17,734 --> 00:05:19,861
 possessions, which I still have as

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00:05:19,861 --> 00:05:23,823
 an heirloom, a family sideboard that

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00:05:23,823 --> 00:05:27,201
 was acquired by my great, great,

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00:05:27,201 --> 00:05:30,621
 great grandfather in the 1830s.

133
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,959
 My parents collected antiques.

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00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:37,336
 They especially liked things from

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00:05:37,336 --> 00:05:40,256
 the 19th century.

136
00:05:41,340 --> 00:05:45,011
 And my father certainly had an

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00:05:45,011 --> 00:05:47,305
 appreciation for historic

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00:05:47,305 --> 00:05:52,602
 architecture and was annoyed when he

139
00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:54,437
 saw things happen to

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00:05:54,437 --> 00:05:56,439
 historic buildings.

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00:05:56,689 --> 00:05:58,316
 Of course, this is back in the 50s

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00:05:58,441 --> 00:06:00,943
 before there was a real cognizance

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00:06:01,069 --> 00:06:04,238
 of architectural preservation.

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00:06:06,491 --> 00:06:08,451
 And in a similar realm, were there

145
00:06:08,451 --> 00:06:11,079
 any moments or perhaps experiences

146
00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:12,705
 that sparked your passion for

147
00:06:12,705 --> 00:06:14,082
 history throughout your life?

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00:06:15,666 --> 00:06:16,751
 I can't think of

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00:06:16,751 --> 00:06:19,962
 anything really in particular.

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00:06:22,632 --> 00:06:25,635
 The town of Gaines here celebrated a

151
00:06:25,635 --> 00:06:28,471
 sesquicentennial in 1959.

152
00:06:30,181 --> 00:06:31,516
 And my father

153
00:06:31,516 --> 00:06:34,435
 encouraged me to build a float

154
00:06:35,937 --> 00:06:38,314
 for the sesquicentennial parade.

155
00:06:39,357 --> 00:06:41,609
 Well, on our farm, we had an old

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00:06:41,609 --> 00:06:43,111
 building that had all

157
00:06:43,111 --> 00:06:44,529
 kinds of stuff in it.

158
00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:48,366
 My grandfather had used it as a shop

159
00:06:48,533 --> 00:06:50,535
 to repair farm machinery.

160
00:06:50,827 --> 00:06:52,286
 And in the shop, there

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00:06:52,286 --> 00:06:54,205
 was a forge in an anvil.

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00:06:55,289 --> 00:06:57,416
 And so my father encouraged me to

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00:06:57,416 --> 00:06:59,460
 put together a float that would

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00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:02,421
 demonstrate a blacksmith shop.

165
00:07:03,005 --> 00:07:06,259
 And with a neighbor boy, a friend of

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00:07:06,259 --> 00:07:08,928
 mine, Jack Miles, the two of us

167
00:07:08,928 --> 00:07:12,557
 pretended to be blacksmiths on this

168
00:07:12,557 --> 00:07:14,100
 float during the

169
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:16,561
 sesquicentennial parade, 1959.

170
00:07:17,812 --> 00:07:20,273
 We had the forge going and were

171
00:07:20,273 --> 00:07:23,818
 hammering on the anvil, hot iron

172
00:07:23,818 --> 00:07:24,777
 during the parade.

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00:07:25,611 --> 00:07:29,198
 And as I recall, we won first prize

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00:07:29,782 --> 00:07:31,701
 in having this float

175
00:07:31,701 --> 00:07:34,370
 in the parade for 1959.

176
00:07:34,745 --> 00:07:38,291
 So that was certainly one thing that

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00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:40,710
 sticks out in my mind and it really,

178
00:07:41,252 --> 00:07:45,590
 I think, is something that really

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00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:49,635
 kind of instilled in me the activity

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00:07:49,635 --> 00:07:52,972
 that was necessary for telling

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00:07:52,972 --> 00:07:55,266
 history and preserving it.

182
00:07:55,725 --> 00:07:57,101
 Definitely, especially that kind of

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00:07:57,101 --> 00:07:59,103
 lived experience going through it.

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00:07:59,145 --> 00:07:59,562
 It's amazing.

185
00:08:00,354 --> 00:08:01,898
 You mentioned that you graduated

186
00:08:01,898 --> 00:08:03,524
 high school in 1963.

187
00:08:04,442 --> 00:08:05,776
 What'd you do after you

188
00:08:05,776 --> 00:08:06,819
 graduated high school?

189
00:08:06,819 --> 00:08:08,613
 Such as college and all that?

190
00:08:09,071 --> 00:08:13,242
 Yeah, I always had this interest in

191
00:08:13,242 --> 00:08:15,703
 drawing as I showed the drawings I

192
00:08:15,703 --> 00:08:17,246
 did from the 1950s.

193
00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:20,166
 So I knew I didn't

194
00:08:20,166 --> 00:08:20,917
 wanna be a farmer.

195
00:08:22,418 --> 00:08:25,463
 So I went to State University

196
00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:26,631
 College at Buffalo

197
00:08:27,048 --> 00:08:29,050
 for art education.

198
00:08:30,676 --> 00:08:34,222
 And that was a great experience.

199
00:08:35,806 --> 00:08:39,185
 I took five years to get through a

200
00:08:39,185 --> 00:08:41,729
 four-year program because along

201
00:08:41,729 --> 00:08:43,397
 about the third year, I thought,

202
00:08:43,814 --> 00:08:45,983
 "Why am I taking so many courses?

203
00:08:46,442 --> 00:08:47,693
 I'm enjoying these

204
00:08:47,693 --> 00:08:48,903
 courses I'm taking.

205
00:08:49,695 --> 00:08:50,780
 I'd like to spend

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00:08:50,780 --> 00:08:52,740
 more time doing artwork."

207
00:08:53,741 --> 00:08:56,744
 And so I kind of slacked off.

208
00:08:57,161 --> 00:09:01,165
 So I spent five years getting the

209
00:09:01,165 --> 00:09:03,251
 bachelor's degree

210
00:09:05,711 --> 00:09:07,171
 and it was fine experience.

211
00:09:07,463 --> 00:09:11,092
 I really wasn't ready to go out and

212
00:09:11,092 --> 00:09:13,219
 start teaching and I knew it was

213
00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:14,178
 something that I didn't

214
00:09:14,178 --> 00:09:16,389
 really wanna do for 40 years.

215
00:09:18,015 --> 00:09:19,433
 And so in your past,

216
00:09:19,433 --> 00:09:20,476
 you were once a teacher.

217
00:09:20,768 --> 00:09:21,602
 Can you tell me a

218
00:09:21,602 --> 00:09:22,353
 little bit about that?

219
00:09:23,437 --> 00:09:26,732
 First year that I taught was in the

220
00:09:26,732 --> 00:09:29,860
 fall of 1968 at the Wise

221
00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:32,405
 Junior High School, Medina.

222
00:09:33,281 --> 00:09:35,366
 And then the next year, a

223
00:09:35,366 --> 00:09:37,410
 job opened up in Albion.

224
00:09:37,618 --> 00:09:40,496
 So then I taught art at Albion High

225
00:09:40,496 --> 00:09:42,623
 School from the fall

226
00:09:42,623 --> 00:09:47,003
 of 1969 through 1978.

227
00:09:47,336 --> 00:09:48,754
 So 10 years of

228
00:09:48,754 --> 00:09:50,756
 teaching was more than enough.

229
00:09:51,757 --> 00:09:52,800
 But it was art and

230
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:53,926
 mechanical drawing.

231
00:09:54,885 --> 00:09:56,679
 The first couple of years that I

232
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,432
 taught in Albion, I had junior high,

233
00:10:00,099 --> 00:10:02,643
 but it was only a couple of sections

234
00:10:02,643 --> 00:10:04,979
 of junior high and nowhere near as

235
00:10:04,979 --> 00:10:06,063
 many kids in a class

236
00:10:06,355 --> 00:10:07,648
 as I had in Medina.

237
00:10:07,982 --> 00:10:10,067
 So it was a better experience.

238
00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:11,193
 I enjoyed working

239
00:10:11,193 --> 00:10:13,779
 really with high school kids.

240
00:10:14,572 --> 00:10:17,783
 And I think the best classes I ever

241
00:10:17,783 --> 00:10:19,160
 had were oddly and

242
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,077
 mechanical drawing.

243
00:10:20,661 --> 00:10:22,455
 Do you have any interesting memories

244
00:10:22,455 --> 00:10:24,582
 or anecdotes about any particular

245
00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:25,916
 students that might have done

246
00:10:25,916 --> 00:10:28,210
 something or other things while you

247
00:10:28,210 --> 00:10:28,753
 were at the school?

248
00:10:29,503 --> 00:10:31,881
 Oh yeah, there's not time enough to

249
00:10:31,881 --> 00:10:38,846
 go into detail necessarily, but I'd

250
00:10:38,846 --> 00:10:40,723
 be fired now probably for some of

251
00:10:40,723 --> 00:10:42,767
 the things that I did.

252
00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:47,813
 I recall there was a student that

253
00:10:47,813 --> 00:10:50,483
 would dash into my room between

254
00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:52,401
 class changeover.

255
00:10:53,194 --> 00:10:55,363
 He wasn't my student, but he would

256
00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:58,240
 stay, get in the room to talk to a

257
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,495
 friend of his who had art with me

258
00:11:02,495 --> 00:11:04,705
 and then the next period was

259
00:11:04,705 --> 00:11:05,915
 mechanical drawing.

260
00:11:05,915 --> 00:11:07,708
 So that boy never left the room, but

261
00:11:07,708 --> 00:11:08,626
 his friend would dash

262
00:11:08,626 --> 00:11:09,835
 in and I'd show him out.

263
00:11:10,336 --> 00:11:11,921
 And sometimes I didn't see him there

264
00:11:11,921 --> 00:11:13,422
 until the bell rang, then I'd have

265
00:11:13,422 --> 00:11:14,673
 to write him a pass to get

266
00:11:14,673 --> 00:11:15,925
 to where he needed to go.

267
00:11:16,509 --> 00:11:18,386
 Well, he wasn't my kid,

268
00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:21,180
 so I was annoyed by it.

269
00:11:21,472 --> 00:11:24,183
 And there was a big strapping high

270
00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:26,268
 school senior there, football

271
00:11:26,268 --> 00:11:27,728
 player, and he

272
00:11:27,728 --> 00:11:29,397
 observed what was going on.

273
00:11:30,314 --> 00:11:32,108
 And he would occasionally say to me,

274
00:11:32,483 --> 00:11:34,568
 "Well, you want me

275
00:11:34,568 --> 00:11:35,444
 to get them for you?"

276
00:11:35,694 --> 00:11:36,821
 And I'd say, "No, no,

277
00:11:36,821 --> 00:11:38,155
 I'll take care of it."

278
00:11:38,155 --> 00:11:41,033
 Well, one day in a weak moment when

279
00:11:41,033 --> 00:11:42,618
 this little kid was in my room,

280
00:11:42,618 --> 00:11:45,413
 didn't belong there, Mike says to

281
00:11:45,413 --> 00:11:46,705
 me, "I'll get them for you."

282
00:11:47,123 --> 00:11:47,790
 And in a weak

283
00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:49,500
 moment, I said, "Okay."

284
00:11:50,167 --> 00:11:51,293
 Well, little did I know

285
00:11:51,293 --> 00:11:52,253
 what was gonna happen.

286
00:11:53,003 --> 00:11:55,673
 This big strapping kid grabbed the

287
00:11:55,673 --> 00:11:58,134
 smaller kid, dragged him out in the

288
00:11:58,134 --> 00:12:00,344
 hall, turned him upside down and had

289
00:12:00,344 --> 00:12:01,512
 a leg in each hand,

290
00:12:01,804 --> 00:12:03,472
 holding the kid upside down.

291
00:12:03,806 --> 00:12:06,225
 And then we walked over to the third

292
00:12:06,225 --> 00:12:08,185
 floor stairwell and lifted him up

293
00:12:08,185 --> 00:12:10,229
 over the railing into the stairwell.

294
00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:13,023
 And he says with a big grin on his

295
00:12:13,023 --> 00:12:14,775
 face, "Shall I let him go?"

296
00:12:15,025 --> 00:12:16,444
 I can get that kid over

297
00:12:16,444 --> 00:12:17,736
 this railing immediately.

298
00:12:20,364 --> 00:12:23,576
 Uprighted the kid, red-faced, he ran

299
00:12:23,576 --> 00:12:25,536
 down that back stairway and I never

300
00:12:25,536 --> 00:12:27,371
 saw him in my hallway again.

301
00:12:29,707 --> 00:12:30,875
 Definitely put him in his place.

302
00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:34,003
 Oh, bad judgment on my part.

303
00:12:35,254 --> 00:12:35,963
 I never heard

304
00:12:35,963 --> 00:12:37,214
 anything more about it.

305
00:12:37,882 --> 00:12:38,466
 I can imagine.

306
00:12:39,175 --> 00:12:40,634
 Be arrested today, probably.

307
00:12:41,093 --> 00:12:41,802
 More than likely.

308
00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:44,847
 One of the last questions I had for

309
00:12:44,847 --> 00:12:46,307
 your personal background, early

310
00:12:46,307 --> 00:12:48,601
 influences, is you live on Gaines

311
00:12:48,601 --> 00:12:49,935
 Basin Road at a very

312
00:12:49,935 --> 00:12:51,353
 old cobblestone house.

313
00:12:51,687 --> 00:12:52,730
 What can you tell me about the

314
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:53,772
 history of that house?

315
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,152
 The house was built in 1842 by

316
00:12:58,152 --> 00:13:01,697
 Brigadier and LaVina Bullard.

317
00:13:03,324 --> 00:13:03,824
 Mrs.

318
00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:08,162
 Bullard was an aunt to Cyrus

319
00:13:08,162 --> 00:13:10,998
 Witherill who was a local

320
00:13:10,998 --> 00:13:12,583
 cobblestone mason.

321
00:13:13,542 --> 00:13:17,922
 And the legend is that the Bullard's

322
00:13:17,922 --> 00:13:20,758
 12-year-old son took the team of

323
00:13:20,758 --> 00:13:24,553
 oxen to the lake and picked up all

324
00:13:24,553 --> 00:13:26,931
 the cobblestones, lake-washed stones

325
00:13:26,931 --> 00:13:28,182
 that are used on the

326
00:13:28,182 --> 00:13:28,849
 front of the house.

327
00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:31,727
 The rest of the house was

328
00:13:31,727 --> 00:13:34,104
 made with glaciated stone.

329
00:13:35,189 --> 00:13:37,816
 So the walls are not anywhere near

330
00:13:37,816 --> 00:13:41,237
 as pretty as the front of the house.

331
00:13:41,987 --> 00:13:42,404
 Gotcha.

332
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,574
 What about your family living there

333
00:13:45,574 --> 00:13:46,242
 throughout the years?

334
00:13:47,076 --> 00:13:48,869
 My great-grandfather bought the

335
00:13:48,869 --> 00:13:52,540
 house farm, 75-acre farm originally,

336
00:13:53,582 --> 00:13:55,251
 from the Bullard estate

337
00:13:55,251 --> 00:13:58,587
 in 1885 and moved there.

338
00:13:59,463 --> 00:14:04,593
 My great-grandmother died

339
00:14:04,593 --> 00:14:06,178
 about that period of time.

340
00:14:06,595 --> 00:14:10,349
 So Phoebe Anderson, Latin, never

341
00:14:10,349 --> 00:14:13,644
 lived there, but Bartlett M.

342
00:14:14,186 --> 00:14:14,979
 Latin and his

343
00:14:14,979 --> 00:14:17,064
 children lived in the house.

344
00:14:18,023 --> 00:14:21,902
 My great-grandfather had four

345
00:14:21,902 --> 00:14:24,822
 daughters and one son, my

346
00:14:24,822 --> 00:14:26,031
 grandfather, Nahama.

347
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:27,783
 Very nice.

348
00:14:28,659 --> 00:14:31,287
 Now, with the museum, what do you

349
00:14:31,287 --> 00:14:32,246
 remember about the

350
00:14:32,246 --> 00:14:33,539
 museum and its founding?

351
00:14:33,789 --> 00:14:35,207
 What was the kind of vision that

352
00:14:35,207 --> 00:14:37,585
 they had at the time when the museum

353
00:14:37,585 --> 00:14:39,795
 was coming to fruition in 1960?

354
00:14:42,881 --> 00:14:46,010
 My father had pretty much retired

355
00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:51,974
 from farming by the late 1950s.

356
00:14:52,683 --> 00:14:54,518
 We had a huge barn that was struck

357
00:14:54,518 --> 00:14:59,356
 by lightning in September 1956 and

358
00:14:59,356 --> 00:15:00,107
 that burned down.

359
00:15:00,524 --> 00:15:04,361
 So he really changed his idea about

360
00:15:04,361 --> 00:15:06,447
 what he was going to be doing.

361
00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:08,574
 And the former county

362
00:15:08,574 --> 00:15:10,659
 historian, Joseph Achilles,

363
00:15:11,702 --> 00:15:16,206
 died in maybe late 1956.

364
00:15:17,458 --> 00:15:18,834
 And my father was appointed

365
00:15:18,834 --> 00:15:20,419
 historian in 1957.

366
00:15:21,211 --> 00:15:25,049
 And I remember going to his office,

367
00:15:25,049 --> 00:15:27,468
 which was located in the basement of

368
00:15:27,468 --> 00:15:29,762
 the courthouse when I was a kid.

369
00:15:30,554 --> 00:15:35,893
 So he was involved in local history.

370
00:15:36,143 --> 00:15:38,395
 He wrote a weekly column.

371
00:15:39,438 --> 00:15:43,734
 And as I recall, it was maybe

372
00:15:43,734 --> 00:15:47,905
 sometime in the summer of 1960 that

373
00:15:47,905 --> 00:15:51,575
 my father told one afternoon, this

374
00:15:51,575 --> 00:15:53,786
 young man came into his office by

375
00:15:53,786 --> 00:15:55,162
 the name of Bob Frash.

376
00:15:56,205 --> 00:15:59,249
 And Bob Frash introduced himself.

377
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,835
 He was, I believe at the time, a

378
00:16:01,835 --> 00:16:04,380
 teacher at Holly High

379
00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:06,965
 School and he taught history.

380
00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:11,845
 And he perhaps lived in Hilton and would drive Ridge Road

381
00:16:12,388 --> 00:16:16,392
 to get to work in Holly.

382
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:19,520
 And he noticed cobblestone

383
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,773
 buildings, cobblestone residences

384
00:16:22,773 --> 00:16:24,316
 along Ridge Road.

385
00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:26,777
 Of course Ridge Road has numerous

386
00:16:26,777 --> 00:16:28,946
 cobblestone residences.

387
00:16:29,947 --> 00:16:32,950
 At any rate, he was aware of the,

388
00:16:34,243 --> 00:16:36,161
 now the historic cobblestone church

389
00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:38,622
 at Childs appeared to be abandoned.

390
00:16:39,248 --> 00:16:40,416
 And what's going to happen to that?

391
00:16:40,874 --> 00:16:44,753
 And he was trying to get some

392
00:16:44,753 --> 00:16:47,214
 information from my father about it.

393
00:16:48,549 --> 00:16:50,467
 My father really didn't know too

394
00:16:50,467 --> 00:16:53,429
 much about it, but he knew a number

395
00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:57,224
 of Universalists who were associated

396
00:16:57,224 --> 00:17:01,520
 with the church in that they had one

397
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,981
 or two services there each season.

398
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,316
 I remember as a little kid going

399
00:17:06,316 --> 00:17:07,151
 there on a couple of different

400
00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:09,695
 occasions with my parents because it

401
00:17:09,695 --> 00:17:12,364
 was kind of an event to go to this

402
00:17:12,364 --> 00:17:14,575
 old church that looked pretty much

403
00:17:14,575 --> 00:17:16,702
 the way it always had for

404
00:17:16,702 --> 00:17:18,120
 special church services.

405
00:17:18,954 --> 00:17:20,038
 So my father, I think,

406
00:17:20,038 --> 00:17:21,457
 maybe made it some calls.

407
00:17:22,791 --> 00:17:24,460
 And he, much to a surprise,

408
00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:27,671
 discovered that the church property

409
00:17:27,671 --> 00:17:28,797
 was going to be

410
00:17:28,797 --> 00:17:30,090
 listed with a realtor.

411
00:17:31,216 --> 00:17:34,386
 And so he and Bob Frash then

412
00:17:34,386 --> 00:17:38,557
 collaborated and Bob Frash, being

413
00:17:38,557 --> 00:17:40,350
 from outside of the community,

414
00:17:41,101 --> 00:17:43,520
 didn't know any of the people.

415
00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:46,064
 But my father knew all the right

416
00:17:46,064 --> 00:17:48,650
 people, but it was Bob Frash who had

417
00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:52,863
 imagination and enthusiasm and

418
00:17:52,863 --> 00:17:54,990
 really was kind of the one that

419
00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:57,618
 energized my father.

420
00:17:58,327 --> 00:17:59,703
 And so the two of them

421
00:17:59,703 --> 00:18:01,330
 got their heads together.

422
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,832
 Bob Frash said, "Well, he could see

423
00:18:03,832 --> 00:18:05,959
 "this little crossroads community

424
00:18:06,543 --> 00:18:08,253
 "as being a cobblestone

425
00:18:08,253 --> 00:18:10,506
 center, a museum village."

426
00:18:11,673 --> 00:18:15,177
 And so as a result, my father talked

427
00:18:15,177 --> 00:18:17,596
 with a number of Universalists.

428
00:18:18,138 --> 00:18:19,973
 My father knew the Universalist

429
00:18:19,973 --> 00:18:21,767
 minister through the Masonic Lodge.

430
00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,687
 He knew Homer Brown who had been

431
00:18:25,687 --> 00:18:27,815
 sort of a sexton or

432
00:18:27,815 --> 00:18:29,650
 caretaker for this property.

433
00:18:30,651 --> 00:18:35,447
 And so as a result, the minister and

434
00:18:35,447 --> 00:18:37,074
 Homer Brown, they all knew the

435
00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:40,577
 people at the convention, New York

436
00:18:40,577 --> 00:18:42,454
 State Convention of Universalists.

437
00:18:43,038 --> 00:18:46,333
 And so the property was then taken

438
00:18:46,333 --> 00:18:50,546
 off of the real estate market.

439
00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:53,674
 And negotiations then were

440
00:18:53,674 --> 00:18:56,468
 undertaken to try to get this

441
00:18:56,468 --> 00:19:00,889
 property turned over to, an entity.

442
00:19:01,765 --> 00:19:03,809
 Well, no such entity existed.

443
00:19:04,351 --> 00:19:08,397
 So as a result, my father started

444
00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:10,941
 talking with people, mostly local

445
00:19:10,941 --> 00:19:13,652
 people here in the community of

446
00:19:13,652 --> 00:19:16,446
 Childs, this area to see if there

447
00:19:16,446 --> 00:19:19,366
 was any interest in establishing a

448
00:19:19,366 --> 00:19:21,493
 museum to take over

449
00:19:22,703 --> 00:19:24,955
 and preserve this historic building.

450
00:19:26,206 --> 00:19:27,875
 So as a result, there were enough

451
00:19:27,875 --> 00:19:32,421
 people who agreed and the first

452
00:19:32,421 --> 00:19:36,049
 initial meeting for what was to

453
00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:37,676
 become the Cobblestone Society

454
00:19:37,676 --> 00:19:41,471
 occurred on October 23rd, 1960.

455
00:19:42,347 --> 00:19:45,100
 And they met in the sanctuary of the

456
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:46,435
 Cobblestone Church.

457
00:19:47,144 --> 00:19:51,899
 My father had put together a list of

458
00:19:51,899 --> 00:19:53,650
 people who would be willing to serve

459
00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:55,819
 on a board of trustees.

460
00:19:56,653 --> 00:19:59,323
 And they talked about a name they

461
00:19:59,323 --> 00:20:00,616
 didn't come up with a

462
00:20:00,616 --> 00:20:01,575
 name at that meeting.

463
00:20:01,575 --> 00:20:02,367
 I was at that

464
00:20:02,367 --> 00:20:05,537
 meeting and they discussed

465
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:08,457
 how they were gonna organize in a

466
00:20:08,457 --> 00:20:10,667
 board of trustees and membership and

467
00:20:10,667 --> 00:20:11,543
 that kind of thing.

468
00:20:12,336 --> 00:20:16,423
 So my father had sort of served as a

469
00:20:16,423 --> 00:20:18,425
 committee of one to pull these

470
00:20:18,425 --> 00:20:20,218
 people together said they would be

471
00:20:20,218 --> 00:20:21,053
 willing to serve.

472
00:20:22,846 --> 00:20:24,348
 He didn't include his own name and

473
00:20:24,348 --> 00:20:25,849
 finally somebody in the audience

474
00:20:25,849 --> 00:20:27,392
 said, well, Carrie Lattan should be

475
00:20:27,392 --> 00:20:29,061
 on the board of trustees too.

476
00:20:29,645 --> 00:20:32,981
 So anyways, they ended up with a

477
00:20:32,981 --> 00:20:34,691
 board of trustees at

478
00:20:34,691 --> 00:20:35,859
 that initial meeting.

479
00:20:36,735 --> 00:20:40,906
 And they needed the advisement of an

480
00:20:40,906 --> 00:20:45,118
 attorney and Curtis Lyman agreed to

481
00:20:45,118 --> 00:20:46,703
 be an attorney pro

482
00:20:46,703 --> 00:20:48,747
 bono for the organization.

483
00:20:50,165 --> 00:20:53,669
 And so as a result, they then had

484
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:55,629
 another meeting and it

485
00:20:55,629 --> 00:20:56,797
 was at the village inn.

486
00:20:57,255 --> 00:20:59,091
 And I recall that it was at that

487
00:20:59,091 --> 00:21:01,093
 meeting that they determined what

488
00:21:01,093 --> 00:21:02,761
 the name of the organization would

489
00:21:02,761 --> 00:21:05,389
 be simply Cobblestone Society.

490
00:21:06,723 --> 00:21:08,392
 That's fascinating being there and

491
00:21:08,392 --> 00:21:10,143
 seeing all that historical change

492
00:21:10,143 --> 00:21:12,354
 come through and kind of evolve into

493
00:21:12,354 --> 00:21:13,188
 what it is today.

494
00:21:13,647 --> 00:21:15,065
 With all of that in mind, what made

495
00:21:15,065 --> 00:21:16,650
 you wanna be part of the Cobblestone

496
00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:18,735
 Society and moreover, when did you

497
00:21:18,735 --> 00:21:19,152
 become part of it?

498
00:21:19,194 --> 00:21:22,948
 I was there from day one and with

499
00:21:22,948 --> 00:21:24,658
 the succeeding meetings, they

500
00:21:24,658 --> 00:21:26,451
 determined what the membership would

501
00:21:26,451 --> 00:21:30,038
 be and so they had a

502
00:21:30,038 --> 00:21:31,081
 charter membership.

503
00:21:31,456 --> 00:21:33,750
 So if you joined the society within

504
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:35,502
 a certain amount of time, you were

505
00:21:35,502 --> 00:21:37,421
 considered a charter member and they

506
00:21:37,421 --> 00:21:41,174
 had a student charter membership.

507
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,471
 So I was one of the charter members

508
00:21:46,471 --> 00:21:49,725
 in the student category along with

509
00:21:49,725 --> 00:21:52,102
 Gail Thompson Johnson.

510
00:21:52,936 --> 00:21:57,315
 So Gail and I are long time go way

511
00:21:57,315 --> 00:21:58,942
 back, we're charter members.

512
00:22:00,610 --> 00:22:02,446
 And since you've seen the museum

513
00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:04,364
 ever since its inception when it

514
00:22:04,364 --> 00:22:06,491
 first came to be, how has it changed

515
00:22:06,491 --> 00:22:08,744
 over the years, both physically, how

516
00:22:08,744 --> 00:22:10,662
 its mission has maybe changed or

517
00:22:10,662 --> 00:22:12,122
 anything that you can recall?

518
00:22:13,665 --> 00:22:16,293
 Well, going back to those early

519
00:22:16,293 --> 00:22:20,881
 days, it was perhaps sometime in

520
00:22:20,881 --> 00:22:26,136
 late 1960 or early 1961, my father

521
00:22:26,136 --> 00:22:29,389
 got a call from Charlie Thompson,

522
00:22:31,516 --> 00:22:33,935
 Gail Johnson's father and Charlie

523
00:22:33,935 --> 00:22:36,438
 said, there's gonna be a meeting,

524
00:22:36,438 --> 00:22:38,565
 they wanna sell the schoolhouse.

525
00:22:39,524 --> 00:22:43,403
 So Charlie indicated to my father,

526
00:22:43,403 --> 00:22:45,238
 really, you're getting organized,

527
00:22:45,614 --> 00:22:47,157
 you ought to have the schoolhouse to

528
00:22:47,157 --> 00:22:48,158
 go along with the church.

529
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:51,620
 So there was a meeting, it was up in

530
00:22:51,620 --> 00:22:53,205
 the, what's now the middle school

531
00:22:53,205 --> 00:22:57,167
 auditorium and they determined at

532
00:22:57,167 --> 00:22:58,668
 that point that the school,

533
00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:01,505
 they were gonna table any decision

534
00:23:01,505 --> 00:23:03,799
 about the school until the

535
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:05,675
 Cobblestone Society really got

536
00:23:05,675 --> 00:23:07,302
 itself better organized.

537
00:23:07,803 --> 00:23:09,387
 So I think they tabled it maybe for

538
00:23:09,387 --> 00:23:12,307
 six months and ultimately the

539
00:23:12,307 --> 00:23:15,143
 Cobblestone Society ended up with

540
00:23:15,143 --> 00:23:18,313
 the real property that they first

541
00:23:18,313 --> 00:23:20,607
 owned was the schoolhouse which cost

542
00:23:20,607 --> 00:23:24,236
 in legal fees $129 to get this

543
00:23:24,236 --> 00:23:25,904
 transferred from old district number

544
00:23:25,904 --> 00:23:28,949
 five to the newly formed museum.

545
00:23:29,616 --> 00:23:32,452
 It took longer to untangle all the

546
00:23:32,452 --> 00:23:35,789
 red tape and so to speak through the

547
00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:37,124
 New York State Convention of

548
00:23:37,124 --> 00:23:38,542
 Universalists to

549
00:23:38,542 --> 00:23:41,044
 fully acquire the church.

550
00:23:41,336 --> 00:23:42,671
 They knew they were gonna get it all

551
00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:44,089
 along but I think it took about

552
00:23:44,089 --> 00:23:46,049
 three years and the church building

553
00:23:46,049 --> 00:23:50,637
 cost $500 again to take care of

554
00:23:50,637 --> 00:23:53,306
 legal fees and all the entanglements

555
00:23:53,598 --> 00:23:57,310
 that came with wills from the past

556
00:23:57,310 --> 00:23:58,770
 and money and so on.

557
00:23:59,312 --> 00:23:59,896
 Very nice.

558
00:24:00,438 --> 00:24:02,149
 Now you mentioned, since you've been

559
00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:03,483
 around since the beginning of the

560
00:24:03,483 --> 00:24:04,943
 Cobblestone Museum that you've met

561
00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:06,653
 some of the founders, especially

562
00:24:06,653 --> 00:24:08,572
 individuals such as Gale.

563
00:24:09,364 --> 00:24:11,408
 How well did you know some of them

564
00:24:11,491 --> 00:24:12,909
 and how they influenced your life,

565
00:24:13,243 --> 00:24:14,411
 any stories that you might be able

566
00:24:14,411 --> 00:24:15,245
 to say about them?

567
00:24:19,499 --> 00:24:23,003
 After this organization got started

568
00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:25,589
 immediately my father tried to think

569
00:24:25,589 --> 00:24:30,927
 who around would be a person with

570
00:24:30,927 --> 00:24:33,388
 money, an angel that

571
00:24:33,388 --> 00:24:35,098
 could come on board.

572
00:24:36,308 --> 00:24:40,645
 And finally my father thought of an

573
00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:45,442
 old time friend that he knew in high

574
00:24:45,442 --> 00:24:47,694
 school that he hadn't seen in years

575
00:24:47,694 --> 00:24:52,115
 but he knew that he was well to do.

576
00:24:53,116 --> 00:24:56,786
 And so my father contacted John D.

577
00:24:57,204 --> 00:24:59,706
 Brush who was the owner of the

578
00:24:59,706 --> 00:25:02,083
 Sentry Safe Company in Rochester.

579
00:25:03,376 --> 00:25:07,047
 Now Brush had been, before he got

580
00:25:07,047 --> 00:25:08,089
 into manufacturing

581
00:25:08,089 --> 00:25:12,719
 safes, he had been gone to St.

582
00:25:13,011 --> 00:25:14,804
 Lawrence University Theological

583
00:25:14,804 --> 00:25:16,723
 School and had become a

584
00:25:16,723 --> 00:25:18,016
 Universalist minister.

585
00:25:18,850 --> 00:25:21,394
 He was only in the ministry for a

586
00:25:21,394 --> 00:25:24,314
 very short period of time, didn't

587
00:25:24,314 --> 00:25:26,816
 like it and then he and his

588
00:25:26,816 --> 00:25:28,193
 brother-in-law went into the safe

589
00:25:28,193 --> 00:25:29,486
 manufacturing business.

590
00:25:29,486 --> 00:25:31,529
 Anyways, very well to do.

591
00:25:31,947 --> 00:25:33,698
 My father hadn't had any contact

592
00:25:33,698 --> 00:25:34,991
 with him in years but my father

593
00:25:34,991 --> 00:25:38,453
 wrote him a letter and asked him if

594
00:25:38,453 --> 00:25:40,330
 he would be interested in coming on

595
00:25:40,330 --> 00:25:41,957
 board to help preserve the old

596
00:25:41,957 --> 00:25:43,124
 Universalist church.

597
00:25:46,002 --> 00:25:48,880
 A week or so went by and one day

598
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,424
 John Brush appeared in my father's

599
00:25:51,424 --> 00:25:53,885
 office much to my father's surprise.

600
00:25:55,136 --> 00:25:57,555
 And immediate said, well I'm,

601
00:25:57,555 --> 00:25:59,307
 immediately said, I'm with ya.

602
00:25:59,849 --> 00:26:02,102
 Oh and by the way, you remember that

603
00:26:02,102 --> 00:26:04,729
 dingy we had when we

604
00:26:04,729 --> 00:26:06,273
 were back in high school?

605
00:26:07,482 --> 00:26:08,483
 You said sell the

606
00:26:08,483 --> 00:26:10,652
 dingy, I got $30 for it.

607
00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:12,195
 Here's the money

608
00:26:12,195 --> 00:26:13,655
 that I never gave to ya.

609
00:26:15,365 --> 00:26:17,033
 (Laughing) But anyways, John Brush

610
00:26:17,033 --> 00:26:21,621
 was a real asset to helping a

611
00:26:21,621 --> 00:26:23,999
 fledgling group get off the ground.

612
00:26:24,582 --> 00:26:26,251
 And of course in the lobby of the

613
00:26:26,251 --> 00:26:27,502
 church there is a

614
00:26:27,502 --> 00:26:29,254
 plaque honoring John D.

615
00:26:29,254 --> 00:26:33,925
 Brush and that plaque was put up

616
00:26:33,925 --> 00:26:36,011
 because he was the one who was

617
00:26:36,011 --> 00:26:39,389
 responsible for paying for having

618
00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:41,975
 the tower restored to the

619
00:26:41,975 --> 00:26:44,561
 Cobblestone Church and that there's

620
00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:46,271
 a plaque on the other side of the

621
00:26:46,271 --> 00:26:49,274
 lobby that indicates he paid for

622
00:26:49,274 --> 00:26:50,734
 that as a memorial to

623
00:26:50,734 --> 00:26:53,778
 his mother Eva and Brush.

624
00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:54,946
 That's amazing.

625
00:26:55,905 --> 00:26:57,115
 And now as part of the museum you served as a director for four years.

626
00:26:57,157 --> 00:27:01,286
 And retired in 2010.

627
00:27:01,870 --> 00:27:03,163
 What were some of the biggest goals

628
00:27:03,163 --> 00:27:04,998
 or priorities when you became the

629
00:27:04,998 --> 00:27:05,915
 director of the museum?

630
00:27:08,668 --> 00:27:12,255
 One, I recall one day Bob Fresh

631
00:27:12,255 --> 00:27:15,717
 appeared in my art room at the

632
00:27:15,717 --> 00:27:16,926
 school after school.

633
00:27:17,761 --> 00:27:19,012
 He must have said, can I

634
00:27:19,012 --> 00:27:19,971
 come and talk with him?

635
00:27:19,971 --> 00:27:21,348
 I said, yeah, I come at 2.30 or

636
00:27:21,348 --> 00:27:23,683
 something because it must have been

637
00:27:23,683 --> 00:27:25,894
 a Friday because the board of

638
00:27:25,894 --> 00:27:26,478
 directors, the board of directors,

639
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:27,604
 the board of directors in those

640
00:27:27,604 --> 00:27:30,190
 early years, and for quite a few

641
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,067
 years actually, met on Friday

642
00:27:32,067 --> 00:27:33,693
 afternoons at four o'clock.

643
00:27:34,486 --> 00:27:36,738
 So Bob Fresh came in, this would

644
00:27:36,738 --> 00:27:39,866
 have been in maybe about 1970 and he

645
00:27:39,866 --> 00:27:42,327
 said to me, I think you ought to be

646
00:27:42,327 --> 00:27:46,206
 the curator for the museum.

647
00:27:46,956 --> 00:27:50,668
 By 1970 they had put in a cement

648
00:27:50,668 --> 00:27:52,379
 floor in the basement of the church

649
00:27:52,712 --> 00:27:55,340
 and were beginning to collect things

650
00:27:56,049 --> 00:27:59,302
 and because I was an art teacher and

651
00:27:59,302 --> 00:28:02,931
 was interested in pulling things

652
00:28:02,931 --> 00:28:05,183
 together so to speak and had

653
00:28:05,183 --> 00:28:07,352
 artistic ability,

654
00:28:08,895 --> 00:28:10,355
 they thought that I would be the

655
00:28:10,355 --> 00:28:11,648
 logical one to be

656
00:28:11,648 --> 00:28:14,234
 an exhibit designer.

657
00:28:14,234 --> 00:28:15,318
 It was what they really need.

658
00:28:15,944 --> 00:28:17,904
 It was kind of a hodgepodge of stuff

659
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:20,448
 and they needed somebody to help

660
00:28:20,448 --> 00:28:24,077
 organize it and make these antique

661
00:28:24,077 --> 00:28:26,746
 artifacts that they had there more

662
00:28:26,746 --> 00:28:31,876
 attractive and educational, make

663
00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:35,588
 sense out of it so that you didn't

664
00:28:35,588 --> 00:28:38,049
 have a hat pen next to a plow.

665
00:28:38,425 --> 00:28:39,884
 You like things together

666
00:28:39,884 --> 00:28:41,428
 and make it look attractive.

667
00:28:43,012 --> 00:28:44,639
 And now you've contributed to many

668
00:28:44,639 --> 00:28:47,183
 different exhibits and other things

669
00:28:47,183 --> 00:28:49,394
 relating to curating these types of

670
00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:50,520
 things that we have at the museum.

671
00:28:50,562 --> 00:28:51,938
 Can you share a project, an

672
00:28:51,938 --> 00:28:53,189
 exhibitor, an event that you're

673
00:28:53,189 --> 00:28:55,275
 especially proud of that you helped

674
00:28:55,275 --> 00:28:56,568
 build while you were here?

675
00:28:58,736 --> 00:29:03,158
 It was in 1975 that the Cobblestone

676
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:05,910
 Museum inherited through bequest of

677
00:29:05,910 --> 00:29:08,872
 Nellie Vagg, her will, the

678
00:29:08,872 --> 00:29:11,958
 blacksmith shop and there were some

679
00:29:11,958 --> 00:29:16,212
 volunteers that went in and cleaned

680
00:29:16,212 --> 00:29:17,922
 and helped straighten it up because

681
00:29:17,922 --> 00:29:20,842
 it had been left just the way Joseph

682
00:29:20,842 --> 00:29:22,677
 Vagg had got through using it pretty

683
00:29:22,677 --> 00:29:25,263
 much and got it cleaned up

684
00:29:25,263 --> 00:29:30,185
 so in the summer of 1976,

685
00:29:34,564 --> 00:29:36,649
 people came to the museum to see the

686
00:29:36,649 --> 00:29:40,737
 Cobblestone Church and the school

687
00:29:40,737 --> 00:29:44,073
 but nobody went over to the blacksmith shop.

688
00:29:44,657 --> 00:29:47,827
 I'd say, well, you'd like

689
00:29:47,827 --> 00:29:48,995
 to see the blacksmith shop?

690
00:29:49,704 --> 00:29:50,914
 Nobody really went over.

691
00:29:51,372 --> 00:29:53,666
 As I recall, maybe a couple

692
00:29:53,666 --> 00:29:56,002
 different visitors went over there

693
00:29:56,002 --> 00:29:57,754
 during the summer of 1976.

694
00:30:00,673 --> 00:30:03,259
 So I thought, well, if there was

695
00:30:03,259 --> 00:30:05,887
 something else over at 98 for people

696
00:30:05,887 --> 00:30:08,348
 to go see, it might be more

697
00:30:08,348 --> 00:30:10,808
 encouraging for people to

698
00:30:10,808 --> 00:30:11,184
 bother to cross the road.

699
00:30:11,226 --> 00:30:17,565
 Well, I really consider myself an

700
00:30:17,565 --> 00:30:19,442
 architectural preservationist,

701
00:30:19,776 --> 00:30:22,195
 obviously doing drawings of

702
00:30:22,195 --> 00:30:23,446
 buildings when I was a kid.

703
00:30:23,947 --> 00:30:29,369
 Anyway, I was aware of a derelict

704
00:30:29,369 --> 00:30:30,828
 building in Medina.

705
00:30:31,704 --> 00:30:33,831
 I knew the man who owned it, Erling

706
00:30:33,831 --> 00:30:36,042
 Main, who ran the lumberyard in

707
00:30:36,042 --> 00:30:37,585
 Medina where the building was

708
00:30:37,585 --> 00:30:39,420
 located and Curtis Lyman had said,

709
00:30:39,921 --> 00:30:43,841
 "There's cedar grants that you could

710
00:30:43,841 --> 00:30:47,595
 get "to maybe move a

711
00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:48,721
 building like that."

712
00:30:48,721 --> 00:30:50,723
 So anyways, I went to see Erling

713
00:30:50,723 --> 00:30:53,685
 Main and asked him if he would be

714
00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:56,771
 willing to give us the building,

715
00:30:56,771 --> 00:30:58,064
 which is now our print shop,

716
00:30:59,649 --> 00:31:00,900
 if we could get a

717
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:02,318
 cedar grant for it.

718
00:31:03,027 --> 00:31:05,822
 And Erling said, "Well,

719
00:31:05,822 --> 00:31:06,698
 yeah, I could do that.

720
00:31:06,948 --> 00:31:07,323
 "It was just like that."

721
00:31:07,365 --> 00:31:10,451
 So we were in business

722
00:31:10,451 --> 00:31:13,746
 and we got the cedar grant.

723
00:31:14,831 --> 00:31:18,918
 It was fortunately, it was because

724
00:31:18,918 --> 00:31:21,087
 of payroll, the Albion school

725
00:31:21,087 --> 00:31:22,547
 system, I was friends with the

726
00:31:22,547 --> 00:31:24,215
 superintendent, agreed to take care

727
00:31:24,215 --> 00:31:25,967
 of the payroll, so

728
00:31:25,967 --> 00:31:27,010
 they handled the grant.

729
00:31:28,136 --> 00:31:31,306
 And anyways, we cleared the lot that

730
00:31:31,306 --> 00:31:33,683
 had come a small lot with the

731
00:31:33,683 --> 00:31:36,102
 blacksmith shop, cleared the lot and

732
00:31:36,102 --> 00:31:37,103
 got the building moved to the shop

733
00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:40,857
 and moved there in 1977.

734
00:31:41,941 --> 00:31:44,360
 The print shop was moved there and

735
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,156
 we had to tear off a part of the

736
00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:48,906
 roof so it would

737
00:31:48,906 --> 00:31:49,907
 come under the wires.

738
00:31:50,575 --> 00:31:52,869
 Keeler Construction Company agreed

739
00:31:52,869 --> 00:31:55,747
 to put it on a flatbed once it was

740
00:31:55,747 --> 00:31:56,748
 ready to be moved

741
00:31:56,748 --> 00:31:58,499
 from Medina down here.

742
00:32:00,752 --> 00:32:02,128
 So I had success with that.

743
00:32:03,379 --> 00:32:06,883
 And then also recognizing the

744
00:32:06,883 --> 00:32:09,052
 urgency of doing something with the

745
00:32:09,052 --> 00:32:10,553
 old Kendall Town Hall,

746
00:32:13,264 --> 00:32:14,474
 I again talked with

747
00:32:14,474 --> 00:32:15,183
 the superintendent,

748
00:32:16,684 --> 00:32:18,603
 that was Douglas Houk at the time,

749
00:32:19,187 --> 00:32:21,939
 and he said, "Yeah, go for it."

750
00:32:22,273 --> 00:32:25,151
 So I saw Mike Paduchek who was the

751
00:32:25,151 --> 00:32:28,446
 supervisor of the town of Kendall.

752
00:32:29,364 --> 00:32:33,785
 And it was noised about that the

753
00:32:33,785 --> 00:32:36,537
 fire department in Kendall wanted to

754
00:32:36,537 --> 00:32:39,248
 burn the old town hall down for a

755
00:32:39,248 --> 00:32:40,750
 practice fire, they'd build a new

756
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:41,834
 town hall, didn't need

757
00:32:41,834 --> 00:32:43,336
 this building any longer.

758
00:32:44,087 --> 00:32:45,755
 Well Paduchek had put them off.

759
00:32:46,381 --> 00:32:48,383
 And so when I approached Mike

760
00:32:48,383 --> 00:32:49,926
 Paduchek and asked him would there

761
00:32:49,926 --> 00:32:51,511
 be any way with the town of Kendall,

762
00:32:51,844 --> 00:32:55,640
 give us the old town hall, his

763
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,017
 immediate reply as I recall was,

764
00:32:58,351 --> 00:33:00,812
 well, you'd be doing me a real favor

765
00:33:00,812 --> 00:33:02,355
 if you could get that out of there.

766
00:33:03,231 --> 00:33:05,191
 So we got it out of

767
00:33:05,191 --> 00:33:06,067
 there, so to speak.

768
00:33:06,067 --> 00:33:07,485
 We started on May Day,

769
00:33:08,069 --> 00:33:10,071
 and we had all the pieces

770
00:33:11,572 --> 00:33:14,200
 disassembled and trucked here by

771
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,246
 Pete Roth who was a neighbor here at

772
00:33:18,246 --> 00:33:20,373
 the museum, ran a trucking business,

773
00:33:20,873 --> 00:33:22,959
 he had a flatbed, got all the pieces

774
00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:26,129
 here by the 1st of July, and

775
00:33:26,129 --> 00:33:28,840
 miraculously got the building put

776
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,675
 back together and painted on the

777
00:33:30,675 --> 00:33:33,052
 outside by the end of October.

778
00:33:34,053 --> 00:33:36,180
 I'm telling you, ignorance is bliss.

779
00:33:36,848 --> 00:33:38,891
 I would never take on a project like

780
00:33:38,891 --> 00:33:42,603
 that because pieces of wood got

781
00:33:42,603 --> 00:33:46,691
 broken, had three or four unskilled,

782
00:33:46,983 --> 00:33:49,569
 untrained kids in their early 20s,

783
00:33:49,569 --> 00:33:51,028
 of course that was the purpose of

784
00:33:51,028 --> 00:33:52,780
 CETA, was to give people training,

785
00:33:54,198 --> 00:33:55,950
 to put this building back together.

786
00:33:56,242 --> 00:33:58,578
 So we had to buy supplies in some

787
00:33:58,578 --> 00:34:01,622
 cases to make the building more

788
00:34:01,622 --> 00:34:05,126
 secure, but miraculously we got it

789
00:34:05,126 --> 00:34:06,085
 put back together.

790
00:34:06,627 --> 00:34:11,257
 And then the following year, we

791
00:34:11,257 --> 00:34:12,717
 worked on the interior.

792
00:34:12,967 --> 00:34:15,803
 Again, I had two CETA workers that

793
00:34:15,803 --> 00:34:17,764
 season to work on the interior, got

794
00:34:17,764 --> 00:34:20,433
 up the drywall and the building

795
00:34:20,433 --> 00:34:22,351
 finished on the inside.

796
00:34:22,685 --> 00:34:26,063
 And then it was dedicated with a

797
00:34:26,063 --> 00:34:32,862
 grand parade on June 1st, 1980.

798
00:34:34,405 --> 00:34:39,368
 And it pulled together from the

799
00:34:39,368 --> 00:34:42,997
 1960s, people started dumping on the

800
00:34:42,997 --> 00:34:45,249
 museum agricultural equipment.

801
00:34:45,583 --> 00:34:47,168
 Well, there was no place to put it.

802
00:34:48,461 --> 00:34:50,296
 Smaller things eventually got put in

803
00:34:50,296 --> 00:34:52,131
 the basement of the cobblestone

804
00:34:52,131 --> 00:34:54,175
 church, but then there were bigger

805
00:34:54,175 --> 00:34:56,052
 pieces of farm tools

806
00:34:56,052 --> 00:34:57,595
 from the 19th century.

807
00:34:57,804 --> 00:34:59,639
 Charlie Thompson said, well, I got

808
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:01,015
 room in my barn, Curtis

809
00:35:01,015 --> 00:35:04,143
 Murray, he had a big barn.

810
00:35:04,143 --> 00:35:05,728
 Well, I can take some stuff in my

811
00:35:05,728 --> 00:35:07,855
 barn as things were given, both men

812
00:35:07,855 --> 00:35:09,232
 on the board of trustees.

813
00:35:09,941 --> 00:35:13,152
 My father had barn space, so we had

814
00:35:13,152 --> 00:35:15,613
 stuff scattered in different

815
00:35:15,613 --> 00:35:18,074
 buildings, didn't know what we had.

816
00:35:18,115 --> 00:35:21,786
 So by getting that building here, it

817
00:35:21,786 --> 00:35:23,788
 allowed us to pull this collection

818
00:35:23,788 --> 00:35:26,833
 together and to display it and to

819
00:35:26,833 --> 00:35:30,211
 deaccession duplicates.

820
00:35:31,295 --> 00:35:36,425
 So that project, I suppose in some

821
00:35:36,425 --> 00:35:38,803
 ways, it's visual storage.

822
00:35:39,345 --> 00:35:43,182
 We've tried to make it thematic in

823
00:35:43,182 --> 00:35:44,559
 some areas, but at

824
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:46,018
 least it saved the stuff.

825
00:35:47,770 --> 00:35:51,357
 I've never been opposed to having

826
00:35:51,357 --> 00:35:53,276
 just a repository.

827
00:35:55,027 --> 00:35:56,571
 Well, then the other building over

828
00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,824
 there, the harness shop, was a

829
00:35:59,824 --> 00:36:02,785
 little building up in Gaines, and it

830
00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:05,705
 was located next to the Chatterbox

831
00:36:05,705 --> 00:36:06,956
 restaurant, which

832
00:36:06,956 --> 00:36:08,040
 is no longer there.

833
00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:10,418
 Rose Wells owned the little building

834
00:36:10,459 --> 00:36:12,170
 and ran the Chatterbox restaurant.

835
00:36:13,546 --> 00:36:16,591
 And I would frequently go to the

836
00:36:16,591 --> 00:36:19,552
 Chatterbox sometimes for lunch, and

837
00:36:19,552 --> 00:36:20,887
 I'd say to her, "Why don't you give

838
00:36:20,887 --> 00:36:22,263
 the museum that little building?"

839
00:36:22,638 --> 00:36:23,890
 And she'd get out of here.

840
00:36:23,890 --> 00:36:24,682
 I'm never gonna give

841
00:36:24,682 --> 00:36:25,683
 that building to you.

842
00:36:26,183 --> 00:36:28,311
 Well, after several years of

843
00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:30,938
 banding, I let it go.

844
00:36:31,689 --> 00:36:33,441
 And one day I went in for lunch and

845
00:36:33,441 --> 00:36:34,567
 Rose says, "Well, when are you

846
00:36:34,567 --> 00:36:35,651
 coming to get the building?"

847
00:36:35,651 --> 00:36:36,527
 I said, "What?"

848
00:36:37,445 --> 00:36:38,613
 She said, "Well, I'm gonna put this

849
00:36:38,613 --> 00:36:39,572
 place up for sale.

850
00:36:39,822 --> 00:36:40,281
 "When are you coming

851
00:36:40,281 --> 00:36:41,282
 to get the building?"

852
00:36:42,241 --> 00:36:43,492
 I've gotta get it out

853
00:36:43,492 --> 00:36:44,452
 of here in two weeks.

854
00:36:45,453 --> 00:36:48,080
 So Marsha Hart, who was a member of

855
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,916
 the Board of Trustees at the time,

856
00:36:50,791 --> 00:36:53,252
 her cousin was Lyman Rice, and he

857
00:36:53,252 --> 00:36:54,295
 sold mobile homes.

858
00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:56,881
 So Marsha and I went to see Lyman

859
00:36:56,881 --> 00:37:01,302
 Rice, and he agreed to load it on a

860
00:37:01,302 --> 00:37:02,386
 flatbed once we got

861
00:37:02,386 --> 00:37:03,346
 the building ready.

862
00:37:03,596 --> 00:37:06,349
 So we were able to move that here

863
00:37:06,849 --> 00:37:08,643
 because getting the printing

864
00:37:08,643 --> 00:37:10,478
 equipment out of the basement of the

865
00:37:10,478 --> 00:37:12,688
 church, getting some architectural,

866
00:37:13,189 --> 00:37:15,024
 or getting some agricultural things

867
00:37:15,024 --> 00:37:16,984
 out of the church, and getting the

868
00:37:16,984 --> 00:37:19,362
 harness shop stuff out of the

869
00:37:19,362 --> 00:37:21,155
 basement of the church opened up the

870
00:37:21,155 --> 00:37:22,698
 basement of the church so we had

871
00:37:22,698 --> 00:37:25,743
 then space for people for receptions

872
00:37:25,743 --> 00:37:27,995
 and meetings, which we just didn't

873
00:37:27,995 --> 00:37:31,290
 have at that period of time.

874
00:37:31,666 --> 00:37:35,294
 So anyways, the town again assisted

875
00:37:35,544 --> 00:37:37,880
 in getting the building moved down

876
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,715
 the road on the flatbed.

877
00:37:39,715 --> 00:37:43,302
 And that's kind of an interesting

878
00:37:43,302 --> 00:37:47,056
 story in itself that we got the

879
00:37:47,056 --> 00:37:49,684
 building all ready to come and I

880
00:37:49,684 --> 00:37:51,143
 didn't have a permit to move it.

881
00:37:52,269 --> 00:37:54,146
 And so I thought, well, I guess I

882
00:37:54,146 --> 00:37:58,401
 better do something about this.

883
00:37:58,401 --> 00:38:00,778
 So I called the sheriff, Dave Green,

884
00:38:01,487 --> 00:38:03,239
 and I said, "We've got a building.

885
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,281
 "We wanna move down to

886
00:38:04,281 --> 00:38:06,242
 Childs from Gaines tomorrow.

887
00:38:06,784 --> 00:38:07,827
 "I think it would be good

888
00:38:07,827 --> 00:38:10,579
 to have a police escort."

889
00:38:11,205 --> 00:38:11,956
 Well, what time do

890
00:38:11,956 --> 00:38:12,832
 you want me to be there?

891
00:38:13,249 --> 00:38:18,337
 So he came and I knew we were

892
00:38:18,337 --> 00:38:20,423
 over-hyped and I didn't wanna have

893
00:38:20,423 --> 00:38:21,882
 to tear off that curved,

894
00:38:21,882 --> 00:38:24,260
 fake front on the building.

895
00:38:24,802 --> 00:38:27,680
 So I got a long stick and cut a V

896
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,515
 shape in it so I could push up a

897
00:38:29,515 --> 00:38:31,642
 couple of telephone wires as I rode

898
00:38:31,642 --> 00:38:33,811
 on the flatbed down the road and get

899
00:38:33,811 --> 00:38:36,439
 it in here next to the print shop

900
00:38:36,439 --> 00:38:37,315
 and the harness shop.

901
00:38:37,648 --> 00:38:45,781
 So really, that project, to me, it's

902
00:38:45,781 --> 00:38:48,993
 like a beautiful painting, those

903
00:38:48,993 --> 00:38:52,204
 three buildings, which otherwise, at

904
00:38:52,204 --> 00:38:53,247
 this point in time,

905
00:38:53,247 --> 00:38:54,123
 would have been destroyed.

906
00:38:55,458 --> 00:38:59,545
 And when our charter, provisional

907
00:38:59,545 --> 00:39:04,925
 charter was written by Curtis Lyman,

908
00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:09,930
 it included to say that the museum

909
00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:13,559
 was established to preserve all

910
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:15,978
 forms of regional art and

911
00:39:15,978 --> 00:39:17,563
 architecture, not

912
00:39:17,563 --> 00:39:19,356
 just cobblestone things.

913
00:39:20,066 --> 00:39:23,527
 So we, in essence, represent a

914
00:39:23,527 --> 00:39:26,655
 regional museum, a local history

915
00:39:26,655 --> 00:39:29,366
 museum, and are kind of, in a way, I

916
00:39:29,366 --> 00:39:31,702
 think is seen as a kind of county

917
00:39:31,702 --> 00:39:34,163
 museum because there are other

918
00:39:34,163 --> 00:39:36,373
 historical museums in the county,

919
00:39:36,373 --> 00:39:37,750
 but I mean, we

920
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:41,045
 have 10 buildings now.

921
00:39:42,088 --> 00:39:43,464
 Yeah, you seem to have a knack for

922
00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:45,007
 acquiring buildings, apparently.

923
00:39:45,257 --> 00:39:49,011
 Well, ask and ye shall receive.

924
00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:52,181
 I wasn't good at raising money.

925
00:39:54,433 --> 00:39:56,685
 I think I'm more of a materialist

926
00:39:56,685 --> 00:39:58,312
 than I am an idealist.

927
00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:05,903
 And so I was good at getting

928
00:40:05,903 --> 00:40:09,115
 artifacts and acquiring buildings.

929
00:40:11,033 --> 00:40:14,203
 And after 40 years, I could see that

930
00:40:14,203 --> 00:40:16,413
 we were losing ground as far as

931
00:40:16,413 --> 00:40:20,501
 membership and finances and so on.

932
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,255
 So at this point in time, I'm so

933
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:26,048
 pleased that Doug Farley came on

934
00:40:26,173 --> 00:40:28,342
 because he's doing exactly what I

935
00:40:28,342 --> 00:40:30,136
 felt needed doing when I retired.

936
00:40:31,137 --> 00:40:32,930
 And it didn't happen for several

937
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:35,099
 years until he came on board.

938
00:40:35,099 --> 00:40:38,018
 But we all have abilities for

939
00:40:38,018 --> 00:40:39,061
 different things.

940
00:40:39,979 --> 00:40:43,149
 And at this point, what we have here

941
00:40:43,607 --> 00:40:45,484
 is certainly a well-rounded

942
00:40:45,484 --> 00:40:48,028
 collection of historic buildings.

943
00:40:48,362 --> 00:40:50,698
 And at this point, now we need to

944
00:40:50,698 --> 00:40:52,074
 make the best use of them.

945
00:40:52,158 --> 00:40:52,533
 Definitely.

946
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:54,660
 Which I had no interest in doing.

947
00:40:55,703 --> 00:40:57,663
 I only was in the repository.

948
00:40:59,081 --> 00:41:01,709
 As a director, would you argue that

949
00:41:01,709 --> 00:41:02,835
 financials were some of

950
00:41:02,835 --> 00:41:03,752
 the biggest challenges?

951
00:41:04,211 --> 00:41:05,546
 It was always a challenge.

952
00:41:09,550 --> 00:41:11,969
 I tried several different people to

953
00:41:11,969 --> 00:41:15,097
 get money when we needed money to do

954
00:41:15,097 --> 00:41:16,599
 restoration work at the

955
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:19,476
 Farmer's Hall in 1978.

956
00:41:19,810 --> 00:41:21,979
 And I couldn't get anywhere.

957
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,731
 I went to see the head

958
00:41:23,731 --> 00:41:25,357
 of the Lipton Company.

959
00:41:26,233 --> 00:41:28,402
 And I thought, well, maybe we could

960
00:41:28,402 --> 00:41:29,320
 get some money out.

961
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,238
 And several people said, well, go,

962
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,531
 go, go, you know, be

963
00:41:32,531 --> 00:41:33,574
 the manager at Lipton.

964
00:41:33,782 --> 00:41:34,867
 So I went to see him.

965
00:41:36,619 --> 00:41:39,496
 And when I suggested something

966
00:41:39,496 --> 00:41:42,958
 about, well, it could, if the gift

967
00:41:42,958 --> 00:41:45,294
 was significant enough, it could

968
00:41:45,294 --> 00:41:46,503
 include a naming right.

969
00:41:46,754 --> 00:41:48,714
 I barely got the words out of my

970
00:41:48,714 --> 00:41:49,757
 mouth and he says, "Oh, no."

971
00:41:51,467 --> 00:41:51,926
 Well, now in

972
00:41:51,926 --> 00:41:54,845
 hindsight, that was 1978.

973
00:41:55,429 --> 00:41:56,597
 He knew Lipton's

974
00:41:56,597 --> 00:41:57,598
 was gonna be moving.

975
00:41:58,265 --> 00:41:59,058
 Nobody else knew.

976
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,518
 And by 1980, Lipton's was gone.

977
00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:03,562
 Interesting.

978
00:42:04,563 --> 00:42:06,815
 And you've, as I've mentioned

979
00:42:06,815 --> 00:42:08,859
 before, curate and gather lots of

980
00:42:08,859 --> 00:42:10,152
 artifacts for these exhibits.

981
00:42:10,152 --> 00:42:11,111
 Some of them were just left in the

982
00:42:11,111 --> 00:42:12,529
 basement or across the

983
00:42:12,529 --> 00:42:13,822
 county in different barns.

984
00:42:13,822 --> 00:42:15,324
 But altogether, how would you go

985
00:42:15,324 --> 00:42:16,992
 about acquiring those kinds of

986
00:42:16,992 --> 00:42:18,327
 artifacts and building the

987
00:42:18,327 --> 00:42:19,578
 collections inside the museum?

988
00:42:19,995 --> 00:42:20,871
 Such as the morning art

989
00:42:20,871 --> 00:42:22,373
 gallery that you've curated?

990
00:42:23,457 --> 00:42:25,584
 Well, with the morning art stuff

991
00:42:25,584 --> 00:42:27,920
 that's now an exhibit

992
00:42:28,254 --> 00:42:30,798
 over at the Brick House,

993
00:42:32,383 --> 00:42:32,800
 that's just

994
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,303
 something I did on my own.

995
00:42:36,637 --> 00:42:40,099
 I started collecting that kind of

996
00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:41,558
 thing back in the 60s

997
00:42:41,558 --> 00:42:43,102
 for my own interest.

998
00:42:43,936 --> 00:42:48,607
 I had a professor of photography

999
00:42:48,607 --> 00:42:50,150
 when I was in college.

1000
00:42:51,026 --> 00:42:52,736
 I still correspond with him.

1001
00:42:52,736 --> 00:42:54,488
 He was only six years older than me.

1002
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,490
 He was real young at the time.

1003
00:42:56,907 --> 00:42:59,368
 But he was into collecting historic

1004
00:42:59,368 --> 00:43:02,913
 photographs and showed our class

1005
00:43:02,913 --> 00:43:06,542
 post-mortem pictures, daguerreotype

1006
00:43:06,542 --> 00:43:10,713
 pictures from the mid 19th century.

1007
00:43:10,963 --> 00:43:12,548
 So I thought they

1008
00:43:12,548 --> 00:43:13,632
 were very interesting.

1009
00:43:15,009 --> 00:43:17,261
 Then I began to realize in

1010
00:43:17,261 --> 00:43:18,721
 antiquing, well, there was a lot

1011
00:43:18,721 --> 00:43:22,683
 more to death than

1012
00:43:22,683 --> 00:43:24,310
 just post-mortem pictures.

1013
00:43:24,601 --> 00:43:25,477
 So I then started

1014
00:43:25,477 --> 00:43:29,398
 collecting stuff as I saw that,

1015
00:43:30,733 --> 00:43:31,734
 sort of told the

1016
00:43:31,734 --> 00:43:33,193
 story more completely.

1017
00:43:33,694 --> 00:43:34,320
 Very nice.

1018
00:43:35,321 --> 00:43:37,489
 Now, on top of being the director

1019
00:43:37,489 --> 00:43:39,658
 slash curator for a long period of

1020
00:43:39,658 --> 00:43:41,035
 time in the museum, you also served

1021
00:43:41,035 --> 00:43:42,328
 as the county historian.

1022
00:43:42,786 --> 00:43:44,371
 When you were the county historian,

1023
00:43:44,371 --> 00:43:45,706
 what kind of work did that involve

1024
00:43:45,706 --> 00:43:46,665
 and how did it compliment

1025
00:43:46,665 --> 00:43:47,791
 your role at the museum?

1026
00:43:49,084 --> 00:43:52,212
 The only thing that I was asked to

1027
00:43:52,212 --> 00:43:54,173
 do when I was appointed historian,

1028
00:43:55,549 --> 00:44:00,804
 which began on January 1st, 1979,

1029
00:44:01,472 --> 00:44:06,143
 said already been museum curator as

1030
00:44:06,143 --> 00:44:07,728
 they first called it,

1031
00:44:08,103 --> 00:44:10,314
 beginning in January, 1971.

1032
00:44:11,398 --> 00:44:14,360
 And I had success with moving the

1033
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,280
 print shop in the farmer's hall.

1034
00:44:19,031 --> 00:44:22,368
 So the board of supervisors

1035
00:44:22,368 --> 00:44:27,664
 recognized that I had some interest

1036
00:44:27,664 --> 00:44:28,957
 in local history.

1037
00:44:30,709 --> 00:44:32,002
 It was Pete Roth, a

1038
00:44:32,002 --> 00:44:32,920
 neighbor over here.

1039
00:44:33,754 --> 00:44:36,965
 He was the vice chairman of the

1040
00:44:36,965 --> 00:44:38,175
 Republican party.

1041
00:44:39,218 --> 00:44:43,222
 And this position opened up for

1042
00:44:43,222 --> 00:44:44,181
 county historian.

1043
00:44:44,723 --> 00:44:46,600
 And he came to me and he said, "Why

1044
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,810
 don't you apply for that?"

1045
00:44:47,810 --> 00:44:49,061
 And I said, "I don't

1046
00:44:49,061 --> 00:44:50,354
 know as I can do that."

1047
00:44:50,354 --> 00:44:51,271
 And he said, "Well, do

1048
00:44:51,271 --> 00:44:52,815
 it as a favor for me."

1049
00:44:53,899 --> 00:44:55,734
 Well, he'd done the museum all kinds

1050
00:44:55,734 --> 00:44:57,694
 of favors, so I felt obligated.

1051
00:44:58,946 --> 00:45:01,990
 They had a couple of other people

1052
00:45:02,241 --> 00:45:04,243
 that were interested in the job, but

1053
00:45:04,243 --> 00:45:06,328
 anyways, I was appointed the

1054
00:45:06,328 --> 00:45:08,455
 historian to begin in 1979.

1055
00:45:09,206 --> 00:45:10,707
 The only thing that they said to me

1056
00:45:10,707 --> 00:45:12,084
 that they wanted me to do

1057
00:45:12,084 --> 00:45:13,669
 was to do a weekly column.

1058
00:45:15,212 --> 00:45:19,258
 So that worked out oftentimes to the

1059
00:45:19,258 --> 00:45:21,301
 benefit of the museum because I

1060
00:45:21,301 --> 00:45:23,220
 could write about stuff and

1061
00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:27,683
 sometimes wrote about events that

1062
00:45:27,683 --> 00:45:30,269
 were gonna be here, putting a

1063
00:45:30,269 --> 00:45:33,647
 historical twist on it or finding

1064
00:45:33,647 --> 00:45:34,565
 stuff that would

1065
00:45:34,565 --> 00:45:36,191
 relate to the museum.

1066
00:45:36,567 --> 00:45:39,862
 And so there are a lot of my columns

1067
00:45:39,862 --> 00:45:42,823
 that related to the museum.

1068
00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:47,536
 Nobody ever complained that I did a

1069
00:45:47,536 --> 00:45:48,620
 lot relating to the

1070
00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:51,081
 museum, but it was all history.

1071
00:45:51,707 --> 00:45:53,250
 My column was known as

1072
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:55,043
 bethinking of old Orleans.

1073
00:45:56,545 --> 00:45:58,464
 And I did that column

1074
00:45:58,464 --> 00:46:03,886
 for 1979 through 2014.

1075
00:46:05,262 --> 00:46:05,512
 Wow.

1076
00:46:07,389 --> 00:46:08,807
 Spanned quite a few decades, huh?

1077
00:46:09,099 --> 00:46:11,393
 Yeah, I wasn't and I certainly

1078
00:46:11,393 --> 00:46:16,273
 wasn't an A plus student in English.

1079
00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:20,652
 Maybe through your columns or even

1080
00:46:20,652 --> 00:46:22,779
 just as county historian, what are

1081
00:46:22,779 --> 00:46:24,198
 some of the most interesting stories

1082
00:46:24,364 --> 00:46:25,782
 or perhaps discoveries that you've

1083
00:46:25,782 --> 00:46:27,659
 made or found out about the county's

1084
00:46:27,659 --> 00:46:29,703
 history or even a specific location?

1085
00:46:32,289 --> 00:46:33,207
 Oh, I don't know.

1086
00:46:33,207 --> 00:46:37,419
 There's just so much here that it's

1087
00:46:37,419 --> 00:46:40,631
 amazing the really the number of

1088
00:46:40,631 --> 00:46:44,343
 people that is fire

1089
00:46:44,343 --> 00:46:47,513
 reaching in the county.

1090
00:46:49,056 --> 00:46:50,390
 You know, there's obvious

1091
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:53,268
 ones like Charles Howard

1092
00:46:55,395 --> 00:46:57,439
 world famous Santa

1093
00:46:57,439 --> 00:46:58,565
 Claus, so to speak.

1094
00:47:00,567 --> 00:47:02,486
 Going back to the 19th century, one

1095
00:47:02,486 --> 00:47:04,404
 of our famous people is certainly

1096
00:47:04,404 --> 00:47:08,575
 George Pullman involved with the

1097
00:47:08,575 --> 00:47:11,328
 Universalist Church here and then

1098
00:47:11,328 --> 00:47:12,037
 later built the

1099
00:47:12,037 --> 00:47:13,455
 Pullman Church in Albion.

1100
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,170
 Just so many people that are of

1101
00:47:20,170 --> 00:47:22,965
 national importance that

1102
00:47:22,965 --> 00:47:25,259
 came out of Orleans County.

1103
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:30,097
 Henry Porter worked for Walt Disney

1104
00:47:30,264 --> 00:47:31,557
 and is considered to be

1105
00:47:31,557 --> 00:47:34,393
 the father of Donald Duck.

1106
00:47:35,185 --> 00:47:36,019
 He's buried in

1107
00:47:36,019 --> 00:47:37,813
 Mount Albion Cemetery.

1108
00:47:38,981 --> 00:47:40,482
 And then there are people who did

1109
00:47:40,482 --> 00:47:42,442
 things that their

1110
00:47:42,442 --> 00:47:43,860
 names are lesser known.

1111
00:47:45,571 --> 00:47:47,781
 Elizabeth Harriet Denial.

1112
00:47:48,991 --> 00:47:54,621
 She was a professor of art history,

1113
00:47:54,997 --> 00:47:56,748
 first woman professor at the

1114
00:47:56,748 --> 00:47:59,042
 University of Rochester in 1902.

1115
00:48:00,502 --> 00:48:02,087
 And she spearheaded the

1116
00:48:02,087 --> 00:48:03,880
 establishment of Memorial Art

1117
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:04,965
 Gallery in Rochester.

1118
00:48:05,257 --> 00:48:08,427
 She was an author, wrote about

1119
00:48:08,427 --> 00:48:11,471
 Nicholas Poussin,

1120
00:48:12,055 --> 00:48:16,101
 17th century painter.

1121
00:48:19,271 --> 00:48:20,606
 Reverend Dr.

1122
00:48:21,231 --> 00:48:22,858
 Charles Vail, minister at the

1123
00:48:22,858 --> 00:48:24,818
 Universalist Church in Elbin early

1124
00:48:24,818 --> 00:48:27,988
 20th century, spearheaded the

1125
00:48:27,988 --> 00:48:29,573
 establishment of the

1126
00:48:29,573 --> 00:48:31,950
 National Socialist Party.

1127
00:48:32,951 --> 00:48:35,162
 All these people that did things

1128
00:48:35,162 --> 00:48:36,538
 that are, you know,

1129
00:48:37,581 --> 00:48:38,415
 way beyond the

1130
00:48:38,415 --> 00:48:41,460
 scope of Orleans County.

1131
00:48:42,127 --> 00:48:43,211
 Truly goes to show that

1132
00:48:43,211 --> 00:48:44,963
 interconnectedness of not only the

1133
00:48:44,963 --> 00:48:46,048
 world, but just the

1134
00:48:46,048 --> 00:48:47,299
 United States as a whole.

1135
00:48:47,299 --> 00:48:48,759
 All these big notable figures,

1136
00:48:48,759 --> 00:48:50,177
 whether they come in through for a

1137
00:48:50,177 --> 00:48:51,845
 day or so, they still have some

1138
00:48:51,845 --> 00:48:53,013
 significance in here.

1139
00:48:53,305 --> 00:48:54,097
 It's amazing that you've

1140
00:48:54,097 --> 00:48:54,973
 been able to find those.

1141
00:48:55,515 --> 00:48:56,350
 Well, there are many.

1142
00:48:58,018 --> 00:48:59,394
 And as a county historian, how did

1143
00:48:59,394 --> 00:49:01,021
 you see the role in preserving

1144
00:49:01,021 --> 00:49:03,565
 community and the identity relating

1145
00:49:03,565 --> 00:49:05,984
 to history or kind of uplifting the

1146
00:49:05,984 --> 00:49:07,569
 community facilitated through

1147
00:49:07,569 --> 00:49:08,445
 history, perhaps?

1148
00:49:09,488 --> 00:49:11,740
 Well, one thing is, especially

1149
00:49:11,740 --> 00:49:12,783
 through the museum,

1150
00:49:13,033 --> 00:49:14,034
 was through events.

1151
00:49:15,285 --> 00:49:18,789
 I started the idea of

1152
00:49:18,789 --> 00:49:20,374
 doing cemetery tours.

1153
00:49:21,208 --> 00:49:23,752
 I think the first cemetery here in

1154
00:49:23,752 --> 00:49:26,922
 Orleans County, that is the first

1155
00:49:26,922 --> 00:49:28,507
 cemetery tour I did

1156
00:49:28,507 --> 00:49:30,467
 was at Mount Elbin.

1157
00:49:31,468 --> 00:49:34,846
 And that was in 1994.

1158
00:49:36,473 --> 00:49:39,726
 And I advertised it in my column.

1159
00:49:40,185 --> 00:49:43,647
 And anyways, much to my surprise,

1160
00:49:44,773 --> 00:49:46,191
 about 300 people

1161
00:49:46,191 --> 00:49:47,651
 showed up for this tour.

1162
00:49:47,651 --> 00:49:49,111
 It's a good thing I had a bullhorn.

1163
00:49:51,822 --> 00:49:56,243
 The village historian at the time

1164
00:49:56,243 --> 00:49:58,620
 before the tour said to me, well,

1165
00:49:58,620 --> 00:49:59,913
 what are you doing that for?

1166
00:50:00,831 --> 00:50:02,457
 And I said, well, I don't know.

1167
00:50:02,457 --> 00:50:04,251
 I go out to the cemetery and I see

1168
00:50:04,251 --> 00:50:05,502
 people walking and

1169
00:50:05,502 --> 00:50:09,381
 jogging and the coach for,

1170
00:50:11,466 --> 00:50:12,426
 as the team go out

1171
00:50:12,426 --> 00:50:14,511
 and run, a track team.

1172
00:50:15,470 --> 00:50:16,972
 I just thought they might like to

1173
00:50:16,972 --> 00:50:18,598
 know something about the monuments

1174
00:50:18,598 --> 00:50:19,766
 they're running by.

1175
00:50:20,642 --> 00:50:21,852
 Well, then after the village

1176
00:50:21,852 --> 00:50:23,687
 historian found out how many people

1177
00:50:23,687 --> 00:50:27,274
 came on the tour, well, gee, if you

1178
00:50:27,274 --> 00:50:29,568
 do another tour, can I help you out?

1179
00:50:29,609 --> 00:50:34,281
 (Laughing) So anyway, you can get

1180
00:50:34,281 --> 00:50:37,033
 people involved in history and

1181
00:50:37,033 --> 00:50:41,788
 motivated and active in history, I

1182
00:50:41,788 --> 00:50:42,789
 think is important.

1183
00:50:42,789 --> 00:50:44,416
 So they have a better understanding

1184
00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:48,462
 of their environment.

1185
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,172
 Definitely, that kind of broad

1186
00:50:50,172 --> 00:50:52,007
 appeal for people, whether it be a

1187
00:50:52,007 --> 00:50:52,716
 small thing that

1188
00:50:52,716 --> 00:50:54,718
 captivates them or a larger scale.

1189
00:50:54,926 --> 00:50:56,136
 Just the other night on...

1190
00:50:56,470 --> 00:51:00,348
 (Engine Revving) That was MSNBC,

1191
00:51:00,974 --> 00:51:01,933
 somebody said, well, all

1192
00:51:01,933 --> 00:51:03,185
 history is local history.

1193
00:51:03,393 --> 00:51:04,269
 Well, yeah, we've heard

1194
00:51:04,269 --> 00:51:05,812
 that any number of times.

1195
00:51:06,605 --> 00:51:06,813
 Definitely.

1196
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,275
 Alongside, this is a little bit

1197
00:51:10,275 --> 00:51:12,652
 later, beyond county historian, but

1198
00:51:12,652 --> 00:51:14,696
 my grandfather, Al Capersa, was one

1199
00:51:14,696 --> 00:51:16,072
 of the major reasons behind the

1200
00:51:16,072 --> 00:51:18,200
 Commissary Schoolhouse on Gaines

1201
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:19,451
 Basin Road being preserved.

1202
00:51:19,951 --> 00:51:21,244
 What was your role in that?

1203
00:51:21,244 --> 00:51:22,412
 What did you do to help kind of

1204
00:51:22,412 --> 00:51:23,121
 preserve and

1205
00:51:23,121 --> 00:51:24,456
 revitalize the building?

1206
00:51:26,082 --> 00:51:31,463
 At the time, Al was president of the

1207
00:51:31,463 --> 00:51:32,631
 Orleans County

1208
00:51:32,631 --> 00:51:34,049
 Historical Association.

1209
00:51:37,177 --> 00:51:38,512
 This probably goes

1210
00:51:38,512 --> 00:51:42,974
 back to maybe 2013 or so.

1211
00:51:45,227 --> 00:51:48,146
 One day I got a call from the code

1212
00:51:48,146 --> 00:51:51,691
 officer in the town of Gaines and

1213
00:51:51,691 --> 00:51:53,610
 asked if I could come

1214
00:51:53,735 --> 00:51:55,195
 to his office for a chat.

1215
00:51:55,362 --> 00:51:56,238
 I don't know, what's he want?

1216
00:51:56,655 --> 00:51:58,990
 So anyways, I hadn't done anything

1217
00:51:59,616 --> 00:52:00,951
 and the museum hadn't done anything.

1218
00:52:01,535 --> 00:52:02,577
 So anyways, his

1219
00:52:02,577 --> 00:52:03,870
 name was Roger Copus.

1220
00:52:03,870 --> 00:52:05,831
 He wasn't code officer very long.

1221
00:52:05,831 --> 00:52:07,082
 I got to his office,

1222
00:52:07,082 --> 00:52:07,958
 we had a nice chat.

1223
00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:11,837
 And he proceeded to tell me that Jim

1224
00:52:11,837 --> 00:52:13,922
 Panic had been in

1225
00:52:15,215 --> 00:52:18,343
 to get some permits for something.

1226
00:52:18,343 --> 00:52:21,221
 And while he was there, made an

1227
00:52:21,221 --> 00:52:24,057
 inquiry about getting a demolition

1228
00:52:24,057 --> 00:52:25,392
 permit for the

1229
00:52:25,392 --> 00:52:27,769
 Cobblestone School at Gaines Basin.

1230
00:52:29,354 --> 00:52:30,814
 Copus told me, he said, "I didn't

1231
00:52:30,814 --> 00:52:31,523
 give him a permit.

1232
00:52:32,315 --> 00:52:34,484
 "He just made an inquiry about

1233
00:52:34,484 --> 00:52:35,694
 getting a permit.

1234
00:52:36,945 --> 00:52:37,863
 "What do you think

1235
00:52:37,863 --> 00:52:39,656
 about that building?"

1236
00:52:40,448 --> 00:52:42,075
 And I said, "Well, it would need a

1237
00:52:42,075 --> 00:52:43,326
 lot of work "and I

1238
00:52:43,326 --> 00:52:44,870
 think it could be restored."

1239
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:46,955
 But I said, "I don't know who's

1240
00:52:46,955 --> 00:52:48,915
 gonna take that on.

1241
00:52:49,708 --> 00:52:52,043
 "I don't think, if he's inquired

1242
00:52:52,043 --> 00:52:54,087
 about a demolition permit, "he isn't

1243
00:52:54,087 --> 00:52:54,921
 gonna be interested

1244
00:52:54,921 --> 00:52:56,715
 in preserving it."

1245
00:52:58,508 --> 00:53:01,887
 And Copus says, "Well, I think the

1246
00:53:01,887 --> 00:53:03,430
 old girl "still got

1247
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:04,514
 some life in her."

1248
00:53:05,807 --> 00:53:07,559
 So I said, "Well, would you like me

1249
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:10,562
 to write a letter "to Jim Panic and

1250
00:53:10,562 --> 00:53:12,606
 just ask him to, in the letter,

1251
00:53:12,856 --> 00:53:14,107
 "from behalf of the

1252
00:53:14,107 --> 00:53:15,150
 Cobblestone Society,

1253
00:53:16,651 --> 00:53:19,779
 "would you be willing to just put

1254
00:53:19,779 --> 00:53:21,823
 off doing anything "with the

1255
00:53:21,823 --> 00:53:22,824
 building for a while?"

1256
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:25,493
 And in the letter, I suggested,

1257
00:53:26,036 --> 00:53:28,079
 because they have Panic's pumpkin

1258
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:30,457
 patch, I said, "Gaines Basin Road's

1259
00:53:30,457 --> 00:53:31,541
 a very busy road.

1260
00:53:32,542 --> 00:53:34,502
 "Could that building serve as a

1261
00:53:34,502 --> 00:53:36,129
 background, "as kind of a satellite,

1262
00:53:36,421 --> 00:53:38,048
 farm market for you?"

1263
00:53:38,673 --> 00:53:40,634
 I never heard anything back from,

1264
00:53:40,634 --> 00:53:42,010
 the letter was sent, I never heard

1265
00:53:42,010 --> 00:53:43,720
 anything back from Jim Panic and I

1266
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:45,430
 never talked with him about it.

1267
00:53:46,473 --> 00:53:48,600
 Well, the next thing I knew, Al

1268
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,728
 Caperso had contacted, and I told Al

1269
00:53:51,728 --> 00:53:55,148
 about what was going on, and so Al

1270
00:53:55,148 --> 00:53:58,276
 contacted Panic and being president

1271
00:53:58,276 --> 00:54:00,362
 of the Historical Association,

1272
00:54:01,529 --> 00:54:04,282
 Al was able to surprisingly convince

1273
00:54:04,282 --> 00:54:05,742
 the Historical Society

1274
00:54:05,742 --> 00:54:07,202
 to take on the school.

1275
00:54:07,202 --> 00:54:07,702
 They had even

1276
00:54:07,702 --> 00:54:09,079
 talked about disbanding.

1277
00:54:10,205 --> 00:54:15,377
 And Al spearheaded the

1278
00:54:15,377 --> 00:54:17,462
 preservation of the building.

1279
00:54:20,215 --> 00:54:21,925
 But I'm glad I sent the letter,

1280
00:54:21,925 --> 00:54:24,678
 because I think that did stall Panic

1281
00:54:24,678 --> 00:54:26,513
 from doing anything more about

1282
00:54:26,513 --> 00:54:29,307
 seeking a demolition permit.

1283
00:54:30,141 --> 00:54:30,225
 Definitely.

1284
00:54:30,392 --> 00:54:32,519
 So a lot of money has gone into

1285
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:34,437
 preserving that building.

1286
00:54:34,813 --> 00:54:36,481
 A lot of money has gone into it.

1287
00:54:37,315 --> 00:54:39,150
 And then additionally, you've been

1288
00:54:39,150 --> 00:54:40,819
 responsible for publishing numerous

1289
00:54:40,819 --> 00:54:42,195
 books throughout your life.

1290
00:54:42,195 --> 00:54:43,113
 Is there anything that you can tell

1291
00:54:43,113 --> 00:54:44,322
 me about them, along with any

1292
00:54:44,322 --> 00:54:46,366
 findings you were able to uncover

1293
00:54:46,366 --> 00:54:48,034
 within them, such as "Architecture

1294
00:54:48,034 --> 00:54:49,035
 Destroyed," for example?

1295
00:54:50,370 --> 00:54:53,331
 Well, I did a series of

1296
00:54:53,331 --> 00:54:55,458
 architectural buildings that had

1297
00:54:55,458 --> 00:54:57,877
 been destroyed in my column as

1298
00:54:57,877 --> 00:54:59,379
 county historian.

1299
00:55:00,547 --> 00:55:03,425
 And so after having a number of

1300
00:55:03,425 --> 00:55:06,386
 these buildings all written up, I

1301
00:55:06,386 --> 00:55:08,555
 suggested to the board of trustees,

1302
00:55:08,805 --> 00:55:10,640
 why couldn't we put out a book on

1303
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,767
 that as a money raising

1304
00:55:12,767 --> 00:55:16,396
 project for the museum?

1305
00:55:16,980 --> 00:55:17,647
 And the board

1306
00:55:17,647 --> 00:55:19,524
 readily agreed to that.

1307
00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:27,449
 Well, first, that was done in 1984.

1308
00:55:28,450 --> 00:55:31,661
 And so this last year, it was

1309
00:55:31,661 --> 00:55:34,664
 reprinted with additions, again, to

1310
00:55:34,664 --> 00:55:36,458
 benefit the Cobblestone Society.

1311
00:55:37,042 --> 00:55:39,461
 The other thing that I've always

1312
00:55:39,461 --> 00:55:43,214
 been very proud of is the research

1313
00:55:43,214 --> 00:55:45,800
 that I did in pulling together a

1314
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,886
 book entitled "Luminaries in the

1315
00:55:47,886 --> 00:55:49,512
 Firmament," which is a guide to

1316
00:55:49,512 --> 00:55:51,222
 stained glass windows in the county.

1317
00:55:52,724 --> 00:55:53,308
 Magnificent

1318
00:55:53,308 --> 00:55:55,060
 specimens of stained glass.

1319
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:56,102
 You wouldn't think that these

1320
00:55:56,102 --> 00:56:00,106
 treasures of great art would be so

1321
00:56:00,106 --> 00:56:01,149
 many of them in a

1322
00:56:01,149 --> 00:56:03,568
 rural area like this.

1323
00:56:04,527 --> 00:56:06,321
 I suppose they represent a certain

1324
00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:07,822
 amount of permanency

1325
00:56:09,491 --> 00:56:11,076
 for something like that.

1326
00:56:11,076 --> 00:56:14,954
 But anyways, my idea was that

1327
00:56:16,581 --> 00:56:18,166
 these windows should be documented,

1328
00:56:20,293 --> 00:56:22,170
 and stories about them should be

1329
00:56:22,170 --> 00:56:24,422
 preserved, and people look at these

1330
00:56:24,422 --> 00:56:25,507
 windows, and they really don't know

1331
00:56:25,507 --> 00:56:26,883
 what they're looking at because

1332
00:56:26,883 --> 00:56:27,926
 there's so much symbolism

1333
00:56:28,426 --> 00:56:29,302
 in a lot of the windows.

1334
00:56:29,511 --> 00:56:30,345
 What does it mean?

1335
00:56:30,887 --> 00:56:33,348
 So these windows were not only meant

1336
00:56:33,348 --> 00:56:35,100
 to be memorials, but they were meant

1337
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:37,352
 to be instructive.

1338
00:56:37,727 --> 00:56:39,479
 And I truly hope that other

1339
00:56:39,479 --> 00:56:41,523
 communities would pick up on the

1340
00:56:41,523 --> 00:56:46,236
 idea and do documentary photographs

1341
00:56:46,236 --> 00:56:47,529
 of these windows as a

1342
00:56:47,529 --> 00:56:48,613
 way to preserve them.

1343
00:56:48,613 --> 00:56:49,030
 Don't have to

1344
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:51,074
 necessarily publish a book.

1345
00:56:51,533 --> 00:56:52,867
 I believe in Genesee County,

1346
00:56:53,493 --> 00:56:54,911
 somebody did go out and take

1347
00:56:54,911 --> 00:56:56,996
 pictures of stained glass windows in

1348
00:56:56,996 --> 00:56:58,248
 the churches there.

1349
00:56:58,832 --> 00:57:00,291
 But this is something that really

1350
00:57:00,291 --> 00:57:01,751
 needs to be done because

1351
00:57:01,751 --> 00:57:04,129
 congregations dissolve,

1352
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:07,340
 buildings get torn down.

1353
00:57:08,925 --> 00:57:11,052
 So these are

1354
00:57:11,052 --> 00:57:14,097
 important community treasures.

1355
00:57:14,806 --> 00:57:16,141
 It's beautiful, that kind of like

1356
00:57:16,141 --> 00:57:18,309
 bottom-up approach of history, kind

1357
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:19,644
 of capturing all.

1358
00:57:21,771 --> 00:57:23,940
 When it comes to your philosophy

1359
00:57:23,940 --> 00:57:25,692
 towards history and any reflections

1360
00:57:25,692 --> 00:57:27,610
 you may have towards it, what do you

1361
00:57:27,610 --> 00:57:29,154
 believe is the importance of local

1362
00:57:29,154 --> 00:57:30,530
 history to a community?

1363
00:57:32,740 --> 00:57:34,075
 Well, like I said, all

1364
00:57:34,075 --> 00:57:35,660
 history is local history.

1365
00:57:36,995 --> 00:57:40,039
 People need to have an understanding

1366
00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:42,500
 of where community has come from.

1367
00:57:44,169 --> 00:57:45,128
 You have a better idea

1368
00:57:45,128 --> 00:57:46,462
 of what it's all about.

1369
00:57:47,130 --> 00:57:48,715
 And usually there's a reason for

1370
00:57:48,715 --> 00:57:50,175
 something to be the way it is.

1371
00:57:51,092 --> 00:57:52,385
 And in some cases,

1372
00:57:52,969 --> 00:57:54,971
 don't meddle with it.

1373
00:57:57,182 --> 00:57:57,807
 We've seen that too

1374
00:57:57,807 --> 00:57:59,017
 many, too many times.

1375
00:57:59,684 --> 00:58:01,019
 Keep your meddling hands off.

1376
00:58:03,897 --> 00:58:05,523
 Now, what advice would you give to

1377
00:58:05,523 --> 00:58:07,108
 someone who wants to get involved in

1378
00:58:07,108 --> 00:58:08,985
 historical work or perhaps being a

1379
00:58:08,985 --> 00:58:10,904
 curator for a museum, anything in

1380
00:58:10,904 --> 00:58:11,863
 that sort of realm?

1381
00:58:13,823 --> 00:58:15,658
 Well, you'll never become rich

1382
00:58:18,036 --> 00:58:19,454
 because it seemed like with the

1383
00:58:19,454 --> 00:58:21,789
 museum and it's true to this day,

1384
00:58:21,789 --> 00:58:24,417
 we're always looking for funds.

1385
00:58:26,085 --> 00:58:29,047
 When bright people come on board and

1386
00:58:29,047 --> 00:58:30,840
 can seek grants, that's wonderful.

1387
00:58:31,049 --> 00:58:32,675
 And we've been fortunate to get a

1388
00:58:32,675 --> 00:58:33,885
 lot of grants here.

1389
00:58:34,761 --> 00:58:38,723
 But you need, it's always a struggle

1390
00:58:38,723 --> 00:58:40,266
 for money, it seems,

1391
00:58:41,017 --> 00:58:43,728
 to keep things going.

1392
00:58:44,771 --> 00:58:47,357
 And with the museum in mind, what do

1393
00:58:47,357 --> 00:58:48,107
 you hope the future

1394
00:58:48,107 --> 00:58:49,234
 holds for the museum?

1395
00:58:49,484 --> 00:58:50,026
 What would you like to

1396
00:58:50,026 --> 00:58:51,778
 see beyond your time?

1397
00:58:52,862 --> 00:58:55,949
 Well, with what we have at the

1398
00:58:55,949 --> 00:58:58,743
 blacksmith shop and the print shop

1399
00:58:58,743 --> 00:59:01,704
 and even the harness shop there,

1400
00:59:02,872 --> 00:59:06,542
 I could see this becoming more

1401
00:59:06,542 --> 00:59:08,962
 educational than

1402
00:59:08,962 --> 00:59:10,964
 we're doing that now.

1403
00:59:10,964 --> 00:59:14,259
 But I think we could become more of

1404
00:59:14,259 --> 00:59:15,468
 an educational facility

1405
00:59:16,594 --> 00:59:18,763
 and with the new building that's

1406
00:59:18,763 --> 00:59:20,723
 being planned for out back here.

1407
00:59:20,723 --> 00:59:21,140
 Visitor center.

1408
00:59:22,475 --> 00:59:25,144
 It can take this, what we have now,

1409
00:59:25,144 --> 00:59:28,064
 which is pretty much a three season

1410
00:59:28,064 --> 00:59:31,067
 museum, can bring it into a four

1411
00:59:31,067 --> 00:59:34,070
 year round four season facility.

1412
00:59:34,737 --> 00:59:35,363
 That'd be incredible.

1413
00:59:35,697 --> 00:59:36,781
 I hope to see that someday.

1414
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:39,534
 And then my last question for you,

1415
00:59:39,993 --> 00:59:40,660
 how would you like your

1416
00:59:40,660 --> 00:59:41,869
 contributions to be

1417
00:59:41,869 --> 00:59:43,204
 remembered by the community?

1418
00:59:46,624 --> 00:59:51,337
 Well, I think that if what we've

1419
00:59:51,337 --> 00:59:56,342
 done over there on Route 98 lasts, I

1420
00:59:56,342 --> 00:59:57,385
 feel that was one of

1421
00:59:57,385 --> 00:59:59,804
 my better contributions.

1422
01:00:00,263 --> 01:00:04,642
 And also, I had to stick my neck out

1423
01:00:05,476 --> 01:00:06,394
 to preserve the brick

1424
01:00:06,394 --> 01:00:09,397
 house next to the church.

1425
01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:11,899
 The planning board in

1426
01:00:11,899 --> 01:00:12,859
 the town again said,

1427
01:00:14,110 --> 01:00:16,821
 "Oh, that could be torn down.

1428
01:00:16,821 --> 01:00:18,239
 Nobody famous slept there."

1429
01:00:18,781 --> 01:00:20,283
 Well, I don't know how anybody knew

1430
01:00:20,283 --> 01:00:20,950
 whether anybody

1431
01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:22,201
 famous slept there or not.

1432
01:00:22,201 --> 01:00:23,619
 Maybe somebody did, I don't know.

1433
01:00:24,954 --> 01:00:25,997
 But when the property

1434
01:00:25,997 --> 01:00:29,542
 was gonna be sold in 1998,

1435
01:00:31,085 --> 01:00:33,963
 the owner was gonna sell the store

1436
01:00:33,963 --> 01:00:36,466
 in the brick house, which had a wing

1437
01:00:36,466 --> 01:00:37,342
 on it and a liquor

1438
01:00:37,342 --> 01:00:38,926
 store later added to it.

1439
01:00:39,594 --> 01:00:44,015
 And well, we said, "We don't wanna

1440
01:00:44,015 --> 01:00:45,808
 look at gas pumps from the

1441
01:00:45,808 --> 01:00:46,851
 Cobblestone Church.

1442
01:00:47,894 --> 01:00:48,936
 Nobody could see it

1443
01:00:48,936 --> 01:00:49,937
 from our perspective."

1444
01:00:50,396 --> 01:00:52,482
 So I had to stir up

1445
01:00:52,482 --> 01:00:53,483
 community interest.

1446
01:00:53,691 --> 01:00:54,817
 We had a meeting over at

1447
01:00:54,817 --> 01:00:55,943
 the village in one night.

1448
01:00:55,943 --> 01:00:57,653
 There were 100 people showed up that

1449
01:00:57,653 --> 01:00:58,404
 were against seeing

1450
01:00:58,404 --> 01:00:59,697
 that building torn down.

1451
01:01:00,365 --> 01:01:03,451
 So as a result, we worked out a deal

1452
01:01:03,493 --> 01:01:06,162
 between the seller and the new owner

1453
01:01:06,287 --> 01:01:08,456
 and everything was placid and

1454
01:01:08,456 --> 01:01:09,791
 agreeable in the end.

1455
01:01:10,083 --> 01:01:12,543
 The Cobblestone Society had to tear

1456
01:01:12,543 --> 01:01:16,631
 off an 1870s wing on the house and

1457
01:01:16,631 --> 01:01:19,217
 the concrete block liquor store to

1458
01:01:19,217 --> 01:01:20,676
 get it back to the original

1459
01:01:20,676 --> 01:01:22,428
 configuration of the

1460
01:01:22,428 --> 01:01:24,305
 house built in the 1830s.

1461
01:01:25,098 --> 01:01:28,142
 So we were able to preserve it and

1462
01:01:28,142 --> 01:01:30,103
 that's an important building to have

1463
01:01:30,103 --> 01:01:34,440
 here at the, and it functions so

1464
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,944
 well for a very needed office at

1465
01:01:37,944 --> 01:01:38,903
 this point in time.

1466
01:01:40,571 --> 01:01:41,447
 Well, that is all that

1467
01:01:41,447 --> 01:01:42,448
 I have for you, Bill.

1468
01:01:42,782 --> 01:01:45,159
 Thank you for the interview and for

1469
01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:46,077
 the incredible legacy

1470
01:01:46,077 --> 01:01:47,203
 that you have left behind.

1471
01:01:47,412 --> 01:01:48,329
 We appreciate the time

1472
01:01:48,329 --> 01:01:49,288
 that you've given us today.

1473
01:01:49,872 --> 01:01:50,540
 Well, thank you.

1474
01:01:50,957 --> 01:01:51,290
 Thank you. Thank you.